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That was somewhat my first thought - "Why not just upgrade the Blue Line to a 4 track system so they can run express trains on it?" I wouldn't be at all surpri

That was somewhat my first thought - "Why not just upgrade the Blue Line to a 4 track system so they can run express trains on it?" I wouldn't be at all surprised if they could halve the El service's time from the loop to O'Hare by having a train that only has stops at major connection points - Clark & Lake, (maybe) Logan Square, Jefferson Park, Cumberland, and O'Hare. But, of course, the Blue Line runs down the middle of I-90 between Jefferson Park and Cumberland, so there's probably not really any room to expand to a 4-track system.

dominotw 8y ago
> Why not just upgrade the Blue Line to a 4 track system Is think they are limited by the space available to expand.
- lvh 8y ago
  True, but they’ve been pretty happy to expand 90 our past 94. Judging by the amount of trains on the blue line even during rush hour and the relatively tiny capacity of the proposed shuttle, we can do a LOT more with the infrastructure we already have though!
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    And it would require huge investment from the city, which this project doesn't require. That said, there are already projects to increase capacity (new cars, more power on the Blue Line), southern expansion of the Red Line and the Belmont Flyover.
    - lvh 8y ago
      Do you believe that it’ll ship and the on-paper cost will be 0? Or that even accounting for operations and externalities it’ll be zero? (I appreciate the city wouldn’t get the profits directly, but I imagine it’ll benefit via taxes. I’m suggesting the externalities won’t be even close.)
      - moorhosj 8y ago
        This is just the opening of a negotiating window, once we see the plan we can make those calculations. For example, Boring will likely have to rent the Block 37 station from the CTA, bringing in some money (but we have no idea how much yet).
  - ForrestN 8y ago
    Sincerely asking since I don’t know: when I lived in Chicago there was constant talk of how old and crappy that infrastructure is—how confident are you that pushing it harder when many people think it needs replacing wouldn’t cause problems and endless construction delays?
    - lvh 8y ago
      Probably less than drilling a new tunnel through all of Chicago.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - ForrestN 8y ago
        You think drilling new tunnels would cause lots of delays to the existing trains?
        lvh 8y ago
        The question was about endless construction delays, not limited to existing trains. My understanding of the current plans is they don’t overlap a lot with current rail lines.
  - phil21 8y ago
    The Blue Line is already operating at the electric and signaling capacity of the line. There is no simple/cheap fix so you get the stagnation you see everywhere in transportation everywhere in the nation. They are currently working on a signaling modernization program, but I don't know the details well enough to know if it will help much. New rolling stock that should offer a bit more capacity also starts arriving around 2020. I agree it's frustrating to watch. I moved to Chicago in 2004 and my El stop on the Blue Line was pretty lightly trafficked. Now you are lucky to get on the train during rush hour, much less get a seat. As the neighborhoods continue to heat up along the line something has to break at some point, but NYC shows things can get really bad and there is not enough focused rage to get anything done even then.
cozzyd 8y ago
Sure there is... Just take out some of the lanes!
- nwah1 8y ago
  Unironically support this.
lvh 8y ago
Yep, the El’s number of stops contributes greatly. Metra follows it starting Jefferson Park and Mayfair or so, and it gets to downtown a lot faster. There already are some express trains but they still have more stops than what you’re suggesting. The El hasn’t kept up with the massive increase in popularity of Wicker Park and Logan Square. Not so huge in absolute numbers but disproportionately people more likely to take transit. Surely CTA has already mined that out of their ridership data.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  The El's "express" trains aren't really express. It's just a way to get a train back on schedule if it's been severely delayed for some reason. The system isn't set up for one train to be able to pass another, so it has to go back to regular service once it's back on schedule.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

dominotw 8y ago

> Why not just upgrade the Blue Line to a 4 track system Is think they are limited by the space available to expand.

lvh 8y ago
True, but they’ve been pretty happy to expand 90 our past 94. Judging by the amount of trains on the blue line even during rush hour and the relatively tiny capacity of the proposed shuttle, we can do a LOT more with the infrastructure we already have though!
- moorhosj 8y ago
  And it would require huge investment from the city, which this project doesn't require. That said, there are already projects to increase capacity (new cars, more power on the Blue Line), southern expansion of the Red Line and the Belmont Flyover.
  - lvh 8y ago
    Do you believe that it’ll ship and the on-paper cost will be 0? Or that even accounting for operations and externalities it’ll be zero? (I appreciate the city wouldn’t get the profits directly, but I imagine it’ll benefit via taxes. I’m suggesting the externalities won’t be even close.)
    - moorhosj 8y ago
      This is just the opening of a negotiating window, once we see the plan we can make those calculations. For example, Boring will likely have to rent the Block 37 station from the CTA, bringing in some money (but we have no idea how much yet).
- ForrestN 8y ago
  Sincerely asking since I don’t know: when I lived in Chicago there was constant talk of how old and crappy that infrastructure is—how confident are you that pushing it harder when many people think it needs replacing wouldn’t cause problems and endless construction delays?
  - lvh 8y ago
    Probably less than drilling a new tunnel through all of Chicago.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - ForrestN 8y ago
      You think drilling new tunnels would cause lots of delays to the existing trains?
      - lvh 8y ago
        The question was about endless construction delays, not limited to existing trains. My understanding of the current plans is they don’t overlap a lot with current rail lines.
- phil21 8y ago
  The Blue Line is already operating at the electric and signaling capacity of the line. There is no simple/cheap fix so you get the stagnation you see everywhere in transportation everywhere in the nation. They are currently working on a signaling modernization program, but I don't know the details well enough to know if it will help much. New rolling stock that should offer a bit more capacity also starts arriving around 2020. I agree it's frustrating to watch. I moved to Chicago in 2004 and my El stop on the Blue Line was pretty lightly trafficked. Now you are lucky to get on the train during rush hour, much less get a seat. As the neighborhoods continue to heat up along the line something has to break at some point, but NYC shows things can get really bad and there is not enough focused rage to get anything done even then.

cozzyd 8y ago

Sure there is... Just take out some of the lanes!

nwah1 8y ago
Unironically support this.

lvh 8y ago

Yep, the El’s number of stops contributes greatly. Metra follows it starting Jefferson Park and Mayfair or so, and it gets to downtown a lot faster. There already are some express trains but they still have more stops than what you’re suggesting. The El hasn’t kept up with the massive increase in popularity of Wicker Park and Logan Square. Not so huge in absolute numbers but disproportionately people more likely to take transit. Surely CTA has already mined that out of their ridership data.

bunderbunder 8y ago
The El's "express" trains aren't really express. It's just a way to get a train back on schedule if it's been severely delayed for some reason. The system isn't set up for one train to be able to pass another, so it has to go back to regular service once it's back on schedule.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]