5 ms·

You take the time to post an URL to the site for your club, and I take the time to look at it... --I find a useless and unreadable site at the given URL that re

You take the time to post an URL to the site for your club, and I take the time to look at it... --I find a useless and unreadable site at the given URL that requires both javascript and Flash. We can probably just agree that I'm simply not your customer, but did you even think about how many potential customers you've turned away by failing to keep things simple and accessible?

wake788 16y ago
He's one of the most famous programmers in the Valley. Pincus and Zuckerberg know him. He doesn't need any exposure; he's just trying to help the OP.
roel_v 16y ago
LOL do you honestly think this is going to make one bit of difference? Flash sites are pretty much standard for all nightclubs, dance/rave parties and related things, I'm quite sure that the audience prefers a shining moving website over 'accessibility'. I'm also pretty sure 95% of the target audience that even bothers to visit the site won't even know that it's a flash site, and they surely aren't going to make the decision on whether or not to visit the club based on whether or not the website is flash or 'plain' html.
- jcroberts 16y ago
  You're not thinking it through completely. It is perfectly fine if I'm not his target customer. Same is true for others like me; we're just not the intended target customer. On the other hand, a javascript/flash-only site can be problematic for search engines, even those engines with the supposed capacity to parse javascript/flash. Outside of the search engine issue is, of course, linking by by human beings. How would you send a friend a link to a show, event, or location page? --You can't. It really doesn't matter if the target audience is expected to be ignorant or indifferent to security concerns. You can still give them the "shining moving website" with flash in addition to more accessible content. The important part is accessibility improves usefulness and effectiveness. The site exist to promote the club, but the current design states, "If you use an iPhone, you're not welcome here." Can you honestly say the entire target audience doesn't use iPhones? In essence, the design defeats the purpose. And no, I do not own an iPhone, but that's beside the point.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    I still disagree. I think the dynamic amongst the target audience is different (I may be wrong, I used to be the target audience 15 years ago but things have probably changed radically since then, plus I'm on a different continent) That said... I'm quite sure there isn't a lot of traffic to these pages anyway. The question to ask is - am I going to lose customer by not being available on an iPhone? People will already have decided if they're going to come or not, they don't need the site to convince them. If their friends go or if it has good buzz they will, otherwise they won't. The website is, I think, just an item on a checklist - you have to have it but it doesn't really matter if it's good (or googleable) or not. For the rest, it's a cost/benefit thing I think. The people who design the flyers (which are an important promotion tool) can easily, quickly and cheaply make a flash website from the flyer design. These things are one-off, they rotate every week, requiring someone who does all the tech frills is expensive and makes the turnaround time longer. (PS no average iPhone user is going to think 'I'm not welcome here', they'll just think 'hmm it doesn't work, let me try at home tonight').
    - jcroberts 16y ago
      I'll agree my "I'm not welcome here" statement was a bit too strongly worded. None the less, you're "let me try at home tonight," statement is actually quite important. --What if the person and their friends were already out on the town looking for a(nother) place to go? "Let me check what's going on at Slide... hmmm... it doesn't work. I'll check $OTHERCLUB." Expecting a potential customer to go find another device to access your content/promotion defeats the purpose of building said promotion. Similar is true for making the content/promotion difficult to find via a search engine. The costs involved in the production of more accessible content are negligible. In fact, it's faster and easier than creating flash content, and you could automate most of it into a form based UI (image of flyer, title, date, time, descriptive text). I do see your point how club promotional sites might not get a lot a traffic but keeping a promotional site accessible to mobile devices and easily found through search really does makes sense. Advertisements that cannot be seen are far less effective than advertisements that can be seen.
      - 16y ago

wake788 16y ago

He's one of the most famous programmers in the Valley. Pincus and Zuckerberg know him. He doesn't need any exposure; he's just trying to help the OP.

roel_v 16y ago

LOL do you honestly think this is going to make one bit of difference? Flash sites are pretty much standard for all nightclubs, dance/rave parties and related things, I'm quite sure that the audience prefers a shining moving website over 'accessibility'. I'm also pretty sure 95% of the target audience that even bothers to visit the site won't even know that it's a flash site, and they surely aren't going to make the decision on whether or not to visit the club based on whether or not the website is flash or 'plain' html.

jcroberts 16y ago
You're not thinking it through completely. It is perfectly fine if I'm not his target customer. Same is true for others like me; we're just not the intended target customer. On the other hand, a javascript/flash-only site can be problematic for search engines, even those engines with the supposed capacity to parse javascript/flash. Outside of the search engine issue is, of course, linking by by human beings. How would you send a friend a link to a show, event, or location page? --You can't. It really doesn't matter if the target audience is expected to be ignorant or indifferent to security concerns. You can still give them the "shining moving website" with flash in addition to more accessible content. The important part is accessibility improves usefulness and effectiveness. The site exist to promote the club, but the current design states, "If you use an iPhone, you're not welcome here." Can you honestly say the entire target audience doesn't use iPhones? In essence, the design defeats the purpose. And no, I do not own an iPhone, but that's beside the point.
- roel_v 16y ago
  I still disagree. I think the dynamic amongst the target audience is different (I may be wrong, I used to be the target audience 15 years ago but things have probably changed radically since then, plus I'm on a different continent) That said... I'm quite sure there isn't a lot of traffic to these pages anyway. The question to ask is - am I going to lose customer by not being available on an iPhone? People will already have decided if they're going to come or not, they don't need the site to convince them. If their friends go or if it has good buzz they will, otherwise they won't. The website is, I think, just an item on a checklist - you have to have it but it doesn't really matter if it's good (or googleable) or not. For the rest, it's a cost/benefit thing I think. The people who design the flyers (which are an important promotion tool) can easily, quickly and cheaply make a flash website from the flyer design. These things are one-off, they rotate every week, requiring someone who does all the tech frills is expensive and makes the turnaround time longer. (PS no average iPhone user is going to think 'I'm not welcome here', they'll just think 'hmm it doesn't work, let me try at home tonight').
  - jcroberts 16y ago
    I'll agree my "I'm not welcome here" statement was a bit too strongly worded. None the less, you're "let me try at home tonight," statement is actually quite important. --What if the person and their friends were already out on the town looking for a(nother) place to go? "Let me check what's going on at Slide... hmmm... it doesn't work. I'll check $OTHERCLUB." Expecting a potential customer to go find another device to access your content/promotion defeats the purpose of building said promotion. Similar is true for making the content/promotion difficult to find via a search engine. The costs involved in the production of more accessible content are negligible. In fact, it's faster and easier than creating flash content, and you could automate most of it into a form based UI (image of flyer, title, date, time, descriptive text). I do see your point how club promotional sites might not get a lot a traffic but keeping a promotional site accessible to mobile devices and easily found through search really does makes sense. Advertisements that cannot be seen are far less effective than advertisements that can be seen.
    - 16y ago