5 ms·

I will start using IDEs again once they get instant, mouse-free, java-crawltime-env free and get easily extensible like most modern editors are.

pjmlp 8y ago
Can you please provide a screenshot of something like Console.table() for a tree data structure on your extensible modern editor?
- gkya 8y ago
  This would be fairly easy to build in Emacs for almost any language, but I can't see how this is so useful. Furthermore, if working with Org mode source blocks, it can render structured data as tables upon evaluation. Say you have this block: #+BEGIN_SRC elisp (list (list 'col1 'col2) (list 1 2)) #+END_SRC (I don't use quote syntax to not confuse non-lispers) Hitting C-c C-c on it produces the following block just below it: #+RESULTS: | col1 | col2 | | 1 | 2 | With Org source blocks you can have a literate program even using multiple languages and still communicating easily between source code blocks and both generated and static tables. It can easily be intermixed with formatted text and exported to a suite of various formats, including plain text source code (so-called "tangled source"). Edit: just for the sake of it, another example, this one in Python: #+BEGIN_SRC python return [[x for x in range(1,5)], [chr(y) for y in range(ord('a'),ord('e'))]] #+END_SRC #+RESULTS: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | a | b | c | d |
  - oblio 8y ago
    I don't get why in this day and age we can't have proper text mode interfaces. Freaking IBM had box drawing characters in freaking 1985, how hard is it to have them in 2018? https://www.ascii-codes.com/ https://www.ascii-codes.com/ See this: ┌─┬┐ │ ││ ├─┼┤ └─┴┘ vs the crappy table.
    - rkeene2 8y ago
      Do you believe this adds some kind of clarity to the data ?
      - oblio 8y ago
        Yes. There's a reason no one (except for hardcore geeks) uses ASCII tables.
        rkeene2 8y ago
        Do you know what that reason is, and can you elucidate me ?
        oblio 8y ago
        They don't look nice... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, true, but the majority of the beholders want a table to actually look like a table. If you give me pen and paper, I'm not going to draw weird half lines around the table, I'm going to draw the table first, line fully drawn everywhere and then add the content.
    - gkya 8y ago
      It's misaligned on my screen. Still, it would not be too hard to hack that in to Org.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Even GDB TUI comes short to what Turbo products with their Turbo Vision based UI were capable of on MS-DOS.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      | Hello | Planet | Earth | |-------+--------+-------| | foo | 4 | 88 | | bar | 265 | 123 | |-------+--------+-------| | sum | 269 | 211 | This org table looks clean enough to me. The disadvantage of using box drawing characters is that they do not always align nicely - depending on the font, renderer, and couple other things. You can't go wrong with basic ASCII and a fixed-width display.

pjmlp 8y ago

Can you please provide a screenshot of something like Console.table() for a tree data structure on your extensible modern editor?

gkya 8y ago
This would be fairly easy to build in Emacs for almost any language, but I can't see how this is so useful. Furthermore, if working with Org mode source blocks, it can render structured data as tables upon evaluation. Say you have this block: #+BEGIN_SRC elisp (list (list 'col1 'col2) (list 1 2)) #+END_SRC (I don't use quote syntax to not confuse non-lispers) Hitting C-c C-c on it produces the following block just below it: #+RESULTS: | col1 | col2 | | 1 | 2 | With Org source blocks you can have a literate program even using multiple languages and still communicating easily between source code blocks and both generated and static tables. It can easily be intermixed with formatted text and exported to a suite of various formats, including plain text source code (so-called "tangled source"). Edit: just for the sake of it, another example, this one in Python: #+BEGIN_SRC python return [[x for x in range(1,5)], [chr(y) for y in range(ord('a'),ord('e'))]] #+END_SRC #+RESULTS: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | a | b | c | d |
- oblio 8y ago
  I don't get why in this day and age we can't have proper text mode interfaces. Freaking IBM had box drawing characters in freaking 1985, how hard is it to have them in 2018? https://www.ascii-codes.com/ https://www.ascii-codes.com/ See this: ┌─┬┐ │ ││ ├─┼┤ └─┴┘ vs the crappy table.
  - rkeene2 8y ago
    Do you believe this adds some kind of clarity to the data ?
    - oblio 8y ago
      Yes. There's a reason no one (except for hardcore geeks) uses ASCII tables.
      - rkeene2 8y ago
        Do you know what that reason is, and can you elucidate me ?
        oblio 8y ago
        They don't look nice... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, true, but the majority of the beholders want a table to actually look like a table. If you give me pen and paper, I'm not going to draw weird half lines around the table, I'm going to draw the table first, line fully drawn everywhere and then add the content.
  - gkya 8y ago
    It's misaligned on my screen. Still, it would not be too hard to hack that in to Org.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Even GDB TUI comes short to what Turbo products with their Turbo Vision based UI were capable of on MS-DOS.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    | Hello | Planet | Earth | |-------+--------+-------| | foo | 4 | 88 | | bar | 265 | 123 | |-------+--------+-------| | sum | 269 | 211 | This org table looks clean enough to me. The disadvantage of using box drawing characters is that they do not always align nicely - depending on the font, renderer, and couple other things. You can't go wrong with basic ASCII and a fixed-width display.