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Given that google is the de facto standard ATM and often returns irrelevant results, I'd wager that search isn't solved. "That does not by itself mean there's

by arthev 8y ago

Given that google is the de facto standard ATM and often returns irrelevant results, I'd wager that search isn't solved. "That does not by itself mean there's room for a new search engine, but lately when using Google search I've found myself nostalgic for the old days, when Google was true to its own slightly aspy self. Google used to give me a page of the right answers, fast, with no clutter. Now the results seem inspired by the Scientologist principle that what's true is what's true for you. And the pages don't have the clean, sparse feel they used to. Google search results used to look like the output of a Unix utility. Now if I accidentally put the cursor in the wrong place, anything might happen." http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

asperous 8y ago
I would suppose that this change is less google changing and more the web changing as people pump out content marketing and SEO. Also might be "olden days were greener", I sure remember a lot of keyword stuffing back in the day.
- telchar 8y ago
  You're probably right about that. Although I can point to one very specific way the olden days were better: a Google search used to turn up lots of forum posts, which are often the most useful results on a given topic. These days I almost never see forum posts of any kind turned up a search results (except stack overflow, thankfully). I'm not sure what caused the change but I find useful information is much more likely to be buried by low-information wikihow-type results and corporate landing pages.
  - a008t 8y ago
    Possibly because most forums seem to have died? Or maybe they died because they got excluded from search results?
- jrumbut 8y ago
  There was, if anything, more search engine spam then. It's just that you got the tools to remove it yourself and then after 12-15 tries you got beautiful search results. Now they've gotten rid of that refinement process in favor of initial results that aren't spam but also aren't that exciting.
karimdag 8y ago
> the Scientologist principle that what's true is what's true for you. Care to elaborate more on that ?
- arthev 8y ago
  That was a quote. There was a link behind the quote.
cesarb 8y ago
> Now if I accidentally put the cursor in the wrong place, anything might happen. Google used to be one of the few websites I whitelisted on my Javascript blocker. I had to remove it from the whitelist, because otherwise its search became unusable: things moving when you scroll over them, URLs magically changing when clicked or even right-clicked, the search page URL actually pointing to a previous search because it used Javascript to submit the new search, etc. At least Google search still works fine with Javascript disabled. Unfortunately, they also moved Google Maps to the main domain (it used to be in a subdomain), so I have to temporarily whitelist it every time I want to use Google Maps, then remember to remove it again from the whitelist before doing a normal web search.
baxtr 8y ago
For me, google has become the entry point whenever I search simple stuff, like song lyrics, an address. Whenever I need real insight, I turn to other sources like HN search or even twitter
- kbyatnal 8y ago
  Can you define "real insight"?
slantyyz 8y ago
>> Given that google is the de facto standard ATM and often returns irrelevant results, I'd wager that search isn't solved. Search has become a cat and mouse game where every time search is "solved" with an improved algorithm, it is "unsolved" quickly by people looking to game the algorithms.
- ivm 8y ago
  Also, large publishers can start a new site in any niche and quickly outrank competitors by linking from their old domains with high authority. Quality of content doesn't matter, it's all about "who you know" on the Internet.
Balgair 8y ago
Is it the MBAs that do this to good products? Google maps was better 7 years ago too. The best way I have heard this process described is 'the elves leaving middle earth' : https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-earth-%E2%80%93-soda%E2%80%99s-are-no-longer-free/ https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... Anyone else know why Google is going full Kodak? EDIT: It's the SEO/spammers/viruses type folks, isn't it? Seems like a good candidate.
- PaulHoule 8y ago
  Actually it is in Google's favor to "lose" the SEO wars. So long as the paid ads are more relevant than the search results, the less likely you are to scroll past the ads and find the "real" search results, which are either repeats of the paid results or spam. Google can always blame the spammers and they can control them entirely by turning them off when they feel like it so there is no motivation for the spammers to invest in improving their sites, or not for anyone else for that matter. (Google can always turn you off) After all if you want more visibility in Google, Google wants you to buy ads.
vram22 8y ago
>Now if I accidentally put the cursor in the wrong place, anything might happen. That literally happens to me sometimes when using Gmail (in regular, i.e. JS-enabled mode, not in HTML UI mode). Sometimes when I move my cursor around with the arrow keys (e.g. up or down), the cursor suddenly vanishes when it reaches some part of the email I am writing or replying to. Sometimes it happens near the quoted part of the email (the part I'm replying to), or something else. Irritating. Then I have to scrap the email and rewrite it, and maybe if I am lucky I can copy (some of) the text I've written and paste it into the new version. I think it is some issues with their JS or CSS, also maybe related to monitor size and resolution.

by arthev 8y ago

asperous 8y ago

I would suppose that this change is less google changing and more the web changing as people pump out content marketing and SEO. Also might be "olden days were greener", I sure remember a lot of keyword stuffing back in the day.

telchar 8y ago
You're probably right about that. Although I can point to one very specific way the olden days were better: a Google search used to turn up lots of forum posts, which are often the most useful results on a given topic. These days I almost never see forum posts of any kind turned up a search results (except stack overflow, thankfully). I'm not sure what caused the change but I find useful information is much more likely to be buried by low-information wikihow-type results and corporate landing pages.
- a008t 8y ago
  Possibly because most forums seem to have died? Or maybe they died because they got excluded from search results?
jrumbut 8y ago
There was, if anything, more search engine spam then. It's just that you got the tools to remove it yourself and then after 12-15 tries you got beautiful search results. Now they've gotten rid of that refinement process in favor of initial results that aren't spam but also aren't that exciting.

karimdag 8y ago

> the Scientologist principle that what's true is what's true for you. Care to elaborate more on that ?

arthev 8y ago
That was a quote. There was a link behind the quote.

cesarb 8y ago

> Now if I accidentally put the cursor in the wrong place, anything might happen. Google used to be one of the few websites I whitelisted on my Javascript blocker. I had to remove it from the whitelist, because otherwise its search became unusable: things moving when you scroll over them, URLs magically changing when clicked or even right-clicked, the search page URL actually pointing to a previous search because it used Javascript to submit the new search, etc. At least Google search still works fine with Javascript disabled. Unfortunately, they also moved Google Maps to the main domain (it used to be in a subdomain), so I have to temporarily whitelist it every time I want to use Google Maps, then remember to remove it again from the whitelist before doing a normal web search.

baxtr 8y ago

For me, google has become the entry point whenever I search simple stuff, like song lyrics, an address. Whenever I need real insight, I turn to other sources like HN search or even twitter

kbyatnal 8y ago
Can you define "real insight"?

slantyyz 8y ago

>> Given that google is the de facto standard ATM and often returns irrelevant results, I'd wager that search isn't solved. Search has become a cat and mouse game where every time search is "solved" with an improved algorithm, it is "unsolved" quickly by people looking to game the algorithms.

ivm 8y ago
Also, large publishers can start a new site in any niche and quickly outrank competitors by linking from their old domains with high authority. Quality of content doesn't matter, it's all about "who you know" on the Internet.

Balgair 8y ago

Is it the MBAs that do this to good products? Google maps was better 7 years ago too. The best way I have heard this process described is 'the elves leaving middle earth' : https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-earth-%E2%80%93-soda%E2%80%99s-are-no-longer-free/ https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... Anyone else know why Google is going full Kodak? EDIT: It's the SEO/spammers/viruses type folks, isn't it? Seems like a good candidate.

PaulHoule 8y ago
Actually it is in Google's favor to "lose" the SEO wars. So long as the paid ads are more relevant than the search results, the less likely you are to scroll past the ads and find the "real" search results, which are either repeats of the paid results or spam. Google can always blame the spammers and they can control them entirely by turning them off when they feel like it so there is no motivation for the spammers to invest in improving their sites, or not for anyone else for that matter. (Google can always turn you off) After all if you want more visibility in Google, Google wants you to buy ads.

vram22 8y ago

>Now if I accidentally put the cursor in the wrong place, anything might happen. That literally happens to me sometimes when using Gmail (in regular, i.e. JS-enabled mode, not in HTML UI mode). Sometimes when I move my cursor around with the arrow keys (e.g. up or down), the cursor suddenly vanishes when it reaches some part of the email I am writing or replying to. Sometimes it happens near the quoted part of the email (the part I'm replying to), or something else. Irritating. Then I have to scrap the email and rewrite it, and maybe if I am lucky I can copy (some of) the text I've written and paste it into the new version. I think it is some issues with their JS or CSS, also maybe related to monitor size and resolution.