4 ms·

I still haven't been able to finish Infinite Jest. It's just... not that interesting, I guess. Part of me thinks English is not a very good language for what's

by alextp 16y ago

I still haven't been able to finish Infinite Jest. It's just... not that interesting, I guess. Part of me thinks English is not a very good language for what's been attempted there; English as it is usually written is too terse and direct, which is precisely the opposite of what DFW was going for. Novels like 2666, written in Spanish, feel a lot more natural in their distorted rambling and crazy deviations from what you guessed should be the plot. But then again, I can't judge it until I finish it. These are just my thoughts after having it around for over six months.

pmb 16y ago
It takes hundreds of pages to get going. Then it goes wonderfully. It't not easy to read, but it is worth it.
tptacek 16y ago
Don't think of it as one coherent novel; instead, think of it as a collection of loosely-related DFW essays, untethered from reality, glued together with 3-4 major characters. One thing he's doing earlier in the book is setting things up so that when he explains things, like the Concavity or why the assassins are in wheelchairs, there's capital built up in the ideas when they pay off. Which, for the first few hundred pages, is actually really annoying. I also highly recommend reading it on a Kindle or iBooks, where the footnotes and dictionary is hyperlinked.
- throw_away 16y ago
  there's also a couple of reader's guides, some short, with a thematic focus (http://amzn.com/082641477X http://amzn.com/082641477X), some longer and more exhaustive (http://amzn.com/0976146533/ http://amzn.com/0976146533/) that can help. when I was first reading infinite jest, there was a section about fifty pages in that stopped me cold a number of times. it was written using a black vernacular, and was about wardine and roy tony and whatnot. for whatever reason, I re-read the first fifty pages until I got to that part, couldn't get through it and put the book down. it turns out that that section has no real bearing on the plot and can be safely ignored, especially if it's obstructing one's first read.
thrdOriginal 16y ago
I can't speak to the Spanish language, but I think his use of the English language is one of the more incredible things he accomplishes in this novel. Really, this is the type of thing that must be read more quickly than not: because he introduces so many things that don't get explained until hundreds of pages later, it is best if they are at least sort of remembered. If not remembered, you may get to the end of the book and have kind of a "huh?" feeling. If this is the case, re-read the first 50 pages. But hey, this book is so much more about the journey that getting to the destination probably won't change your opinion of it much. If you don't like it now, might want to just pick up another book.
jamesbritt 16y ago
"English as it is usually written is too terse and direct" If only. Too many people waste too many words dancing around what they really mean to say. English can be terse and direct (love those anglo-saxon words!), but having glommed so much from so many other languages it affords endless variety for circumlocution.
- alextp 16y ago
  Not endless. I'm brazillian, and more than once when translating a good, terse, phrase in english to portuguese I felt the need to "pad it up" with rethorical and discourse markers that have no meaning in themselves; conversely, when translating from portuguese to english most of a sentence becomes unnecessary and the final result is a lot terser. I can give you examples if you want.
  - sp332 16y ago
    Well, I'd like some examples :-)
    - alextp 16y ago
      A sentence I extracted from a particularly idiomatic piece of portuguese: > O primeiro, presença ofuscante na consciência social, tem nome definido e inscrição temporal supostamente clara: a crise financeira global. If you translate it idiomatically to English you have > The first of them is the global financial crisis. But if you translate if literally you have > The first, a blinding presence in the social consciousness, has a definite name and a supposedly clear temporal inscription: the global financial crysis. You will not believe me, but in portuguese all this extra unnecessary rhetoric reads a lot better than the equivalent in english. Also, there is a tendency in portuguese to write using as erudite a word as you can think of, which in English mostly sounds pathetic. I'm looking for better examples right now.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 16y ago
barredo 16y ago
As a Spaniard and Spanish native speaker, i agree with you. Also, from Wikipedia's page for 2666: "Over 1100 pages long in its Spanish edition and almost 900 in its English translation" Seems like English it's a bit more direct than Spanish in average. The wording is shorter.
- alextp 16y ago
  I'm brazillian and can't speak (but can read) spanish. The translations of bolaño to english I've glanced over read really bad, when compared to the original (or the translations to portuguese). I think terseness is an issue here.

by alextp 16y ago

pmb 16y ago

It takes hundreds of pages to get going. Then it goes wonderfully. It't not easy to read, but it is worth it.

tptacek 16y ago

Don't think of it as one coherent novel; instead, think of it as a collection of loosely-related DFW essays, untethered from reality, glued together with 3-4 major characters. One thing he's doing earlier in the book is setting things up so that when he explains things, like the Concavity or why the assassins are in wheelchairs, there's capital built up in the ideas when they pay off. Which, for the first few hundred pages, is actually really annoying. I also highly recommend reading it on a Kindle or iBooks, where the footnotes and dictionary is hyperlinked.

throw_away 16y ago
there's also a couple of reader's guides, some short, with a thematic focus (http://amzn.com/082641477X http://amzn.com/082641477X), some longer and more exhaustive (http://amzn.com/0976146533/ http://amzn.com/0976146533/) that can help. when I was first reading infinite jest, there was a section about fifty pages in that stopped me cold a number of times. it was written using a black vernacular, and was about wardine and roy tony and whatnot. for whatever reason, I re-read the first fifty pages until I got to that part, couldn't get through it and put the book down. it turns out that that section has no real bearing on the plot and can be safely ignored, especially if it's obstructing one's first read.

thrdOriginal 16y ago

I can't speak to the Spanish language, but I think his use of the English language is one of the more incredible things he accomplishes in this novel. Really, this is the type of thing that must be read more quickly than not: because he introduces so many things that don't get explained until hundreds of pages later, it is best if they are at least sort of remembered. If not remembered, you may get to the end of the book and have kind of a "huh?" feeling. If this is the case, re-read the first 50 pages. But hey, this book is so much more about the journey that getting to the destination probably won't change your opinion of it much. If you don't like it now, might want to just pick up another book.

jamesbritt 16y ago

"English as it is usually written is too terse and direct" If only. Too many people waste too many words dancing around what they really mean to say. English can be terse and direct (love those anglo-saxon words!), but having glommed so much from so many other languages it affords endless variety for circumlocution.

alextp 16y ago
Not endless. I'm brazillian, and more than once when translating a good, terse, phrase in english to portuguese I felt the need to "pad it up" with rethorical and discourse markers that have no meaning in themselves; conversely, when translating from portuguese to english most of a sentence becomes unnecessary and the final result is a lot terser. I can give you examples if you want.
- sp332 16y ago
  Well, I'd like some examples :-)
  - alextp 16y ago
    A sentence I extracted from a particularly idiomatic piece of portuguese: > O primeiro, presença ofuscante na consciência social, tem nome definido e inscrição temporal supostamente clara: a crise financeira global. If you translate it idiomatically to English you have > The first of them is the global financial crisis. But if you translate if literally you have > The first, a blinding presence in the social consciousness, has a definite name and a supposedly clear temporal inscription: the global financial crysis. You will not believe me, but in portuguese all this extra unnecessary rhetoric reads a lot better than the equivalent in english. Also, there is a tendency in portuguese to write using as erudite a word as you can think of, which in English mostly sounds pathetic. I'm looking for better examples right now.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 16y ago

barredo 16y ago

As a Spaniard and Spanish native speaker, i agree with you. Also, from Wikipedia's page for 2666: "Over 1100 pages long in its Spanish edition and almost 900 in its English translation" Seems like English it's a bit more direct than Spanish in average. The wording is shorter.

alextp 16y ago
I'm brazillian and can't speak (but can read) spanish. The translations of bolaño to english I've glanced over read really bad, when compared to the original (or the translations to portuguese). I think terseness is an issue here.