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Thank you so much, 37signals guys. I've always found pg's essays to be motivational and inspring, but there are two things that always turn me off; 1.) I don't

Thank you so much, 37signals guys. I've always found pg's essays to be motivational and inspring, but there are two things that always turn me off; 1.) I don't live in San Fransisco, and probably never will, and 2.) I have a family. I often feel dismissed by PG and his disciples. DHH's stuff gives me hope that there's still a chance for "fogeys" (cripes, I'm only 33!) like me. I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. Is that fair? I stay up late into the night hacking after the kids go to bed, and I'm in the office hours before other people are there so I can do some extra hacking. Am I not motivated enough? Can I not be passionate? Perhaps DHH is onto something. Perhaps balancing the challenges of work and family five you a healthy dosage of time management and prioritization skills. There are some interesting comments on DHH's site - several presumably young, single kids are crabby and crying "discrimination!" (e.g., "Wow, that’s actually offensive. And illegal in BC, Canada and I hope other enlightened jurisdictions.", or the more eloquent "I’m single and you can kiss my ..."). I wonder if these people have ever noticed that the discrimination often goes the other way, against the thirty-something parent crowd, too.

attack 18y ago
I bet that I'll be in that exact same position in 10 years. All of us will.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Yes. That position is known in the social sciences as your prime earning years.
  - attack 18y ago
    I suppose the ss people don't measure based on wage? Interesting.
wanorris 18y ago
> Perhaps balancing the challenges of work and family five you a healthy dosage of time management and prioritization skills. Plus, I don't know about you, but I have real world experience about a boatload of pitfalls that I know to avoid that I wasn't aware of 10 years ago. That is a potential source of significant efficiency.
pg 18y ago
I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. We don't ask on the application form if people have kids, nor as far as I can recall have we asked anyone in an interview. The reason most of the people we fund don't have kids is simply that most of the people who apply don't have kids.
- jsrn 18y ago
  > [...] most of the people who apply don't have kids. how do you know if you don't ask?
  - pg 18y ago
    True, I'm guessing based on the demographic similarity between the people we accept (whose circumstances I do eventually learn about) and applicants as a whole. But the median applicant does seem to be about the same as the median company we fund: a pair of guys about 25 years old.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Not for nothing, but for a hiring manager, asking this question is a firing offense. So is age, marital status, religion, or even any question about place of residence apart from "are you capable of being on-site during core hours". From a lot of unfortunate experience: tech people suck at following these rules.
    - petercooper 18y ago
      It's more unfortunate that a few bad apples in the past have made these laws necessary in the first place. Asking someone about their life is hardly a crime, but our governments seem to have no problem making it so. Score another point against a good employer / employee relationship.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        How could it possibly be relevant to your hiring decision how old someone is, or what neighborhood they live in?
brlewis 18y ago
I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. Is that fair? No, it is not fair for you to air that feeling here. The YC partners get enough discouragement from having to reject a lot of smart people, so why add discouragement about someone speculating they would be rejected if they actually applied? News.yc is a handout. Take it and be grateful. The information I've gotten here has been invaluable for my own work, and it's actually possible to keep up with it. (I try to follow TechCrunch for photo-specific news that doesn't rise up here, but there's too much noise. I have a day job and 3 kids, so I have to budget my time.) If you don't want to be dismissed, implement something great. Nobody will ask about your family status.
- skmurphy 18y ago
  News.yc is a community site. YC partners may be the stone in the stone soup but the soup comes from the community.
  - brlewis 18y ago
    You're right that the surrounding community is a big part of the value. If stones were themselves tasty, and if they worked to maintain the quality of the other ingredients, I would completely agree with your stone soup analogy.
michaelneale 18y ago
YCombinator startups are startups - it seems that most of them are built to be sold - with a quick (ish) payoff for the founders and investors who sacrificed a lot. 37s viewpoint is more about a sustainable "small" business. Both are valid. PS I am 33 w. kids as well, and know what it is like. In some ways, you can have a lot more time to think/hack, as you tend to spend more time at home (and quiet time is spent at home, not out at the pub).
- axod 18y ago
  "37s viewpoint is more about a sustainable "small" business. Both are valid." But IMHO 37s viewpoint has little to do with startups. Sure, we could all go and build a modest business that can grow to a small/medium size, and sustain us. But I'm guessing that would count as a failure for a lot of us.
sabat 18y ago
I don't mind the message -- no, you don't have to live in SF (your loss! :-) and no, you don't have to be single. It's the delivery I have a problem with. More and more, it seems like DHH and his sidekick are deliberately looking for fights. Like they have something they need to prove. Therapy?
- axod 18y ago
  Don't forget "No, you don't have to sell to google for millions"

attack 18y ago

I bet that I'll be in that exact same position in 10 years. All of us will.

tptacek 18y ago
Yes. That position is known in the social sciences as your prime earning years.
- attack 18y ago
  I suppose the ss people don't measure based on wage? Interesting.

wanorris 18y ago

> Perhaps balancing the challenges of work and family five you a healthy dosage of time management and prioritization skills. Plus, I don't know about you, but I have real world experience about a boatload of pitfalls that I know to avoid that I wasn't aware of 10 years ago. That is a potential source of significant efficiency.

pg 18y ago

I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. We don't ask on the application form if people have kids, nor as far as I can recall have we asked anyone in an interview. The reason most of the people we fund don't have kids is simply that most of the people who apply don't have kids.

jsrn 18y ago
> [...] most of the people who apply don't have kids. how do you know if you don't ask?
- pg 18y ago
  True, I'm guessing based on the demographic similarity between the people we accept (whose circumstances I do eventually learn about) and applicants as a whole. But the median applicant does seem to be about the same as the median company we fund: a pair of guys about 25 years old.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Not for nothing, but for a hiring manager, asking this question is a firing offense. So is age, marital status, religion, or even any question about place of residence apart from "are you capable of being on-site during core hours". From a lot of unfortunate experience: tech people suck at following these rules.
  - petercooper 18y ago
    It's more unfortunate that a few bad apples in the past have made these laws necessary in the first place. Asking someone about their life is hardly a crime, but our governments seem to have no problem making it so. Score another point against a good employer / employee relationship.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      How could it possibly be relevant to your hiring decision how old someone is, or what neighborhood they live in?

brlewis 18y ago

I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. Is that fair? No, it is not fair for you to air that feeling here. The YC partners get enough discouragement from having to reject a lot of smart people, so why add discouragement about someone speculating they would be rejected if they actually applied? News.yc is a handout. Take it and be grateful. The information I've gotten here has been invaluable for my own work, and it's actually possible to keep up with it. (I try to follow TechCrunch for photo-specific news that doesn't rise up here, but there's too much noise. I have a day job and 3 kids, so I have to budget my time.) If you don't want to be dismissed, implement something great. Nobody will ask about your family status.

skmurphy 18y ago
News.yc is a community site. YC partners may be the stone in the stone soup but the soup comes from the community.
- brlewis 18y ago
  You're right that the surrounding community is a big part of the value. If stones were themselves tasty, and if they worked to maintain the quality of the other ingredients, I would completely agree with your stone soup analogy.

michaelneale 18y ago

YCombinator startups are startups - it seems that most of them are built to be sold - with a quick (ish) payoff for the founders and investors who sacrificed a lot. 37s viewpoint is more about a sustainable "small" business. Both are valid. PS I am 33 w. kids as well, and know what it is like. In some ways, you can have a lot more time to think/hack, as you tend to spend more time at home (and quiet time is spent at home, not out at the pub).

axod 18y ago
"37s viewpoint is more about a sustainable "small" business. Both are valid." But IMHO 37s viewpoint has little to do with startups. Sure, we could all go and build a modest business that can grow to a small/medium size, and sustain us. But I'm guessing that would count as a failure for a lot of us.

sabat 18y ago

I don't mind the message -- no, you don't have to live in SF (your loss! :-) and no, you don't have to be single. It's the delivery I have a problem with. More and more, it seems like DHH and his sidekick are deliberately looking for fights. Like they have something they need to prove. Therapy?

axod 18y ago
Don't forget "No, you don't have to sell to google for millions"