6 ms·

Reminder that Python 2 dies in 18 months. https://pythonclock.org https://pythonclock.org

yorwba 8y ago
It will likely remain around for longer, since depending on unsupported software doesn't immediately kill a project. When old Python 2 code hits a bug in the CPython interpreter and nobody is around to fix it, there'll finally be an incentive to migrate away (maybe to Python 3, maybe to another language), but not before that.
- Narkov 8y ago
  True, however lots of large corporates won't use an unsupported version if the vendor drops it.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    There, the vendor will be redhat or ... who will be supporting it longer. What enterprises mean by support isn't provided by the PSF anyway. They support their products 10 years, or indefinitely if you pay extra for it, so Redhat will support Python 2 until June 30, 2024. If I understand it correctly, that means CentOS will too.
- u801e 8y ago
  > It will likely remain around for longer, since depending on unsupported software doesn't immediately kill a project. It also depends on how long companies like Redhat support it (CentOS 6 comes with Python 2.6 and CentOS 7 comes with Python 2.7).
acqq 8y ago
I wouldn't be surprised that vendors will still have to do the fixes to Python 2 for many years past that date, and that a kind of "fork" will keep the 2.7 branch decently alive much longer. It's just the current "official" maintainers that announce the cutoff date for their work.
- dagw 8y ago
  Another problem is 'semi-abandoned' code. For example the Open Source program QGIS used to use Python2 is its main plug in language but recently switched to Python3. The end result is the most plug-ins don't work any more. And since many of the plug-ins where useful little niche scripts that someone wrote years ago and then stopped updating/supporting once they where done, the chance that most of them will see a port is tiny.
CJefferson 8y ago
The PSF might be trying to murder Python 2, but it can't do it any more than GCC could kill c99 for c11. I look forward to using c99 and Python 2.7 for many years to come. There are more then enough Companies and Devs to keep Python 2 ticking over forever.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  GCC and clang are probably the only C compilers in the world that care about C11, so it is quite hard to kill C99 for C11.
  - berti 8y ago
    Last I checked MSVC couldn't even do C99 properly yet.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Because it is called Visual C++ and Microsoft has openly stated that they are compliant to the extent required by ISO C++, which is the future of systems programming on Windows, alongside .NET Native for some use cases. ISO C++14 requires C99 library compatibility, ISO C++17 requires C11 library compatibility only when C++ doesn't already offer better alternatives. For C developers there is clang/gcc integration in Visual Studio. "Modern C++ Game Development on Microsoft Platforms" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HMZdAXaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HMZdAXaw
  - CJefferson 8y ago
    True, but following the Python model, GCC and Clang could just threaten people with the death of C99 for 5 years or so, then in some release just disable them. Of course, that would be much less painful than Python 3, because C11 is (a) almost entirely compatible with C99, and (b) not noticeably slower.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
      I was given to understand that Python 3 got past after 3.5 or so?
xbmcuser 8y ago
Doesn't mean that python 2 programs will stop working. I know developer of Calibre has stated that he will maintain the python 2 codebase himself. And is actually happy that python 2 development will be out of the current maintainers hands.
- hayd 8y ago
  That's insanity. I love Calibre, but under-the-hood it's spaghetti.
  - xbmcuser 8y ago
    Calibre is more than a decade worth of his development time. Maintaining python 2.7 for calibre would take a magnitude of less developer time and resources than porting calibre to python 3.

It will likely remain around for longer, since depending on unsupported software doesn't immediately kill a project. When old Python 2 code hits a bug in the CPython interpreter and nobody is around to fix it, there'll finally be an incentive to migrate away (maybe to Python 3, maybe to another language), but not before that.

Narkov 8y ago
True, however lots of large corporates won't use an unsupported version if the vendor drops it.
- candiodari 8y ago
  There, the vendor will be redhat or ... who will be supporting it longer. What enterprises mean by support isn't provided by the PSF anyway. They support their products 10 years, or indefinitely if you pay extra for it, so Redhat will support Python 2 until June 30, 2024. If I understand it correctly, that means CentOS will too.
u801e 8y ago
> It will likely remain around for longer, since depending on unsupported software doesn't immediately kill a project. It also depends on how long companies like Redhat support it (CentOS 6 comes with Python 2.6 and CentOS 7 comes with Python 2.7).

acqq 8y ago

I wouldn't be surprised that vendors will still have to do the fixes to Python 2 for many years past that date, and that a kind of "fork" will keep the 2.7 branch decently alive much longer. It's just the current "official" maintainers that announce the cutoff date for their work.

dagw 8y ago
Another problem is 'semi-abandoned' code. For example the Open Source program QGIS used to use Python2 is its main plug in language but recently switched to Python3. The end result is the most plug-ins don't work any more. And since many of the plug-ins where useful little niche scripts that someone wrote years ago and then stopped updating/supporting once they where done, the chance that most of them will see a port is tiny.

CJefferson 8y ago

The PSF might be trying to murder Python 2, but it can't do it any more than GCC could kill c99 for c11. I look forward to using c99 and Python 2.7 for many years to come. There are more then enough Companies and Devs to keep Python 2 ticking over forever.

pjmlp 8y ago
GCC and clang are probably the only C compilers in the world that care about C11, so it is quite hard to kill C99 for C11.
- berti 8y ago
  Last I checked MSVC couldn't even do C99 properly yet.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Because it is called Visual C++ and Microsoft has openly stated that they are compliant to the extent required by ISO C++, which is the future of systems programming on Windows, alongside .NET Native for some use cases. ISO C++14 requires C99 library compatibility, ISO C++17 requires C11 library compatibility only when C++ doesn't already offer better alternatives. For C developers there is clang/gcc integration in Visual Studio. "Modern C++ Game Development on Microsoft Platforms" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HMZdAXaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on8HMZdAXaw
- CJefferson 8y ago
  True, but following the Python model, GCC and Clang could just threaten people with the death of C99 for 5 years or so, then in some release just disable them. Of course, that would be much less painful than Python 3, because C11 is (a) almost entirely compatible with C99, and (b) not noticeably slower.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
    I was given to understand that Python 3 got past after 3.5 or so?

xbmcuser 8y ago

Doesn't mean that python 2 programs will stop working. I know developer of Calibre has stated that he will maintain the python 2 codebase himself. And is actually happy that python 2 development will be out of the current maintainers hands.

hayd 8y ago
That's insanity. I love Calibre, but under-the-hood it's spaghetti.
- xbmcuser 8y ago
  Calibre is more than a decade worth of his development time. Maintaining python 2.7 for calibre would take a magnitude of less developer time and resources than porting calibre to python 3.