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For some of the history of that time, I suggest checking out "Masters of Doom : how two guys created an empire and transformed pop culture", by David Kushner.

For some of the history of that time, I suggest checking out "Masters of Doom : how two guys created an empire and transformed pop culture", by David Kushner. The book is 15 years old (!!!) at this point, but I think it's still a compelling read.

movedx 8y ago
I also recommend the NoClip documentary on Id Software and on the back of that, virtually any interview with John Romeo -- the guy is awesome and so willing to share his thoughts, ideas, history, anything...
- bitexploder 8y ago
  John Romero for anyone looking him up.
  - kchr 8y ago
    With that fabulous hair he sported, he will always be Romeo to me!
    - sangnoir 8y ago
      That might have made the infamous Daikatana ad a bit more...Shakespearean: "Romeo's about to make you his bitch."
  - movedx 8y ago
    AH yeah, sorry about that. And thanks for the correction.
westoncb 8y ago
I can second that—it's an excellent book. It put a clear image in my mind of the sort of environment I'd like to develop software in: primarily just a group of friends who have a shared idea of something cool they want to build together. I've been disillusioned that that will happen at a Silicon Valley type startup (not that it's impossible—but far more likely that the founders will segregate themselves from employees in such a way that everyone involved can't feel the same passion, commitment, interest, etc.—or even just the knowledge that they're going through the same struggle at the same time. Also the big stakes and investor pressure etc. are almost certainly gonna drain the fun.), but I'm still hopeful I can find or create similar circumstances elsewhere.
- phil21 8y ago
  It's been interesting and sad to watch the definition of "startup" transform from the bootstrapped style "group of friends" company like Id Software who... well, defined the damn term - into the VC-funded "startups" of today. If anything startups today look like insanely corporate structures to me, answering to "the man" before they even get off the ground much less accomplish anything of note. Certainly strange to watch the definition shift over time.
- nsp 8y ago
  I have trouble believing the nyc startup scene is more egalitarian, but I’m on my 4th startup as an early employee (#1-18ish) and the founders have always been in the trenches. Not to invalidate your experience, just to emphasize the role of luck in all of this.
  - westoncb 8y ago
    I've been at two startups, one in Boston and one in San Francisco. At the Boston startup, all the founders but one were very much 'in the trenches'; the one who wasn't was a professor splitting her time elsewhere, so it made sense. That company was ~20 people when I joined. At the SF startup, the founder was... (to avoid saying too much) alienating, though the whole company was only four people for much of the time, and never more than eight or so. In any case, the main thing I want to say is that it doesn't really matter whether they are 'in the trenches.' You are in different realms of existence if you own the company vs. work for it. As a founder, it's your personal creation; as an employee, you may care about the product, but the primary thing is your paycheck (most startup employees I've spoken with are much more mercenary with this than myself, too). You know that if it succeeds, the founder will become rich and famous and enter a social stratum that the employees will still only be able to fantasize about. No one will know their name or grant them ridiculous amounts of respect etc. Even if none of that comes to fruition, the fact that your potential courses (as they relate to the company) are so divided creates immediate present-term social distance. And you lose the sense of shared struggle—or it's at least on a much lower level. If you're all equal owners, the feeling of going to work on your shared thing must be very different, I imagine. I think it's probably also necessary to not take investment (or somehow do it in a very low pressure way), in order to have fun like the Id guys.
scruffyherder 8y ago
For sure it's a great book!
dbg31415 8y ago
RetroAhoy: Doom - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A4-SVUHQYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A4-SVUHQYI
Shinchy 8y ago
Just finished reading it, fantastic book. Carmack had a passion for what we now call open-source even during the 80s era of Apple II development.
tgb 8y ago
I hate to play the role of the grouch, but I read it after constantly hearing about it and think it's definitely worth reading, but the book just isn't that good. The writing was poor and it tried to force narratives on events with a heavy hand. The actual history in it is cool but mostly lacking technical details which would have made it more interesting. It's worth reading if you already find Carmack interesting but keep your expectations low so you're not disappointed like I was. It's a fast and easy read though so it won't take long to try it regardless of who's opinion you listen to. Thinking about how much Carmack has been up to since that book was written is super cool.
dmschulman 8y ago
Never read Masters of Doom but this excerpt about id Software in John Craddock's new book Rocket Jump was a fascinating long read: http://www.shacknews.com/article/101156/rocket-jump-quake-and-the-golden-age-of-first-person-shooters http://www.shacknews.com/article/101156/rocket-jump-quake-an... I grew up in this era so I'm certainly enamored by the nostalgia trip but I have a lot of respect for the team at id, it's fascinating to read about all of the mundane aspects of ray tracing and compressing color palettes enough such that a game like Doom or Quake could actually work. id probably did more than any other company at the time to make programming seem like an alternative subculture instead of a science and to make games these dark and moody experiences that were a blast to play (especially with friends via LAN).

movedx 8y ago

I also recommend the NoClip documentary on Id Software and on the back of that, virtually any interview with John Romeo -- the guy is awesome and so willing to share his thoughts, ideas, history, anything...

bitexploder 8y ago
John Romero for anyone looking him up.
- kchr 8y ago
  With that fabulous hair he sported, he will always be Romeo to me!
  - sangnoir 8y ago
    That might have made the infamous Daikatana ad a bit more...Shakespearean: "Romeo's about to make you his bitch."
- movedx 8y ago
  AH yeah, sorry about that. And thanks for the correction.

westoncb 8y ago

I can second that—it's an excellent book. It put a clear image in my mind of the sort of environment I'd like to develop software in: primarily just a group of friends who have a shared idea of something cool they want to build together. I've been disillusioned that that will happen at a Silicon Valley type startup (not that it's impossible—but far more likely that the founders will segregate themselves from employees in such a way that everyone involved can't feel the same passion, commitment, interest, etc.—or even just the knowledge that they're going through the same struggle at the same time. Also the big stakes and investor pressure etc. are almost certainly gonna drain the fun.), but I'm still hopeful I can find or create similar circumstances elsewhere.

phil21 8y ago
It's been interesting and sad to watch the definition of "startup" transform from the bootstrapped style "group of friends" company like Id Software who... well, defined the damn term - into the VC-funded "startups" of today. If anything startups today look like insanely corporate structures to me, answering to "the man" before they even get off the ground much less accomplish anything of note. Certainly strange to watch the definition shift over time.
nsp 8y ago
I have trouble believing the nyc startup scene is more egalitarian, but I’m on my 4th startup as an early employee (#1-18ish) and the founders have always been in the trenches. Not to invalidate your experience, just to emphasize the role of luck in all of this.
- westoncb 8y ago
  I've been at two startups, one in Boston and one in San Francisco. At the Boston startup, all the founders but one were very much 'in the trenches'; the one who wasn't was a professor splitting her time elsewhere, so it made sense. That company was ~20 people when I joined. At the SF startup, the founder was... (to avoid saying too much) alienating, though the whole company was only four people for much of the time, and never more than eight or so. In any case, the main thing I want to say is that it doesn't really matter whether they are 'in the trenches.' You are in different realms of existence if you own the company vs. work for it. As a founder, it's your personal creation; as an employee, you may care about the product, but the primary thing is your paycheck (most startup employees I've spoken with are much more mercenary with this than myself, too). You know that if it succeeds, the founder will become rich and famous and enter a social stratum that the employees will still only be able to fantasize about. No one will know their name or grant them ridiculous amounts of respect etc. Even if none of that comes to fruition, the fact that your potential courses (as they relate to the company) are so divided creates immediate present-term social distance. And you lose the sense of shared struggle—or it's at least on a much lower level. If you're all equal owners, the feeling of going to work on your shared thing must be very different, I imagine. I think it's probably also necessary to not take investment (or somehow do it in a very low pressure way), in order to have fun like the Id guys.

scruffyherder 8y ago

For sure it's a great book!

dbg31415 8y ago

RetroAhoy: Doom - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A4-SVUHQYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A4-SVUHQYI

Shinchy 8y ago

Just finished reading it, fantastic book. Carmack had a passion for what we now call open-source even during the 80s era of Apple II development.

tgb 8y ago

I hate to play the role of the grouch, but I read it after constantly hearing about it and think it's definitely worth reading, but the book just isn't that good. The writing was poor and it tried to force narratives on events with a heavy hand. The actual history in it is cool but mostly lacking technical details which would have made it more interesting. It's worth reading if you already find Carmack interesting but keep your expectations low so you're not disappointed like I was. It's a fast and easy read though so it won't take long to try it regardless of who's opinion you listen to. Thinking about how much Carmack has been up to since that book was written is super cool.

dmschulman 8y ago

Never read Masters of Doom but this excerpt about id Software in John Craddock's new book Rocket Jump was a fascinating long read: http://www.shacknews.com/article/101156/rocket-jump-quake-and-the-golden-age-of-first-person-shooters http://www.shacknews.com/article/101156/rocket-jump-quake-an... I grew up in this era so I'm certainly enamored by the nostalgia trip but I have a lot of respect for the team at id, it's fascinating to read about all of the mundane aspects of ray tracing and compressing color palettes enough such that a game like Doom or Quake could actually work. id probably did more than any other company at the time to make programming seem like an alternative subculture instead of a science and to make games these dark and moody experiences that were a blast to play (especially with friends via LAN).