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The gig economy is literally a product of a lack of economic security. As I've mentioned before, if suddenly people had enough money or assistance that they did

The gig economy is literally a product of a lack of economic security. As I've mentioned before, if suddenly people had enough money or assistance that they didn't need to gig to make ends meet, businesses like Uber and Lyft would have no more "independent contractors". They'd probably fold or have to raise prices above that of Taxis.

vertexFarm 8y ago
It's absolutely a desperation career. Those always exist somewhere in any economy, and arguably there should be options available for desperate people, but the sheer volume of them is getting sad. It's like the US has a very poor, developing country double-exposed over an insanely wealthy and advanced one, both occupying the same territory. I'm not a historian but it strikes me as very strange and somewhat new to the world.
- jjoske 8y ago
  Actually I suspect this has been somewhat the norm through out history, and the last 50-100 years have been some what odd.
  - adrianratnapala 8y ago
    Yes, but the "norm through out history" of course contains a lot of variations. If you look at the UK or US during the Industrial Revolution (or China today) you will see poor people doing hard jobs and its all part of a huge economic build-up that makes everyone richer -- even if some people at the top could skim off fortunes. But if you look at even broader history, such as Medieval Europe, or China and India for most of their history, you will still see industrious poor people. But there's little build-up -- just skimming by the people at the top. I think modern India is somewhere in between those two modes. And sometimes I fear that western democracies are converging on the same in-between place, but from the other side.
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  >I'm not a historian but it strikes me as very strange and somewhat new to the world. It’s similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union, with the opioid crisis taking the place of people drinking themselves to death. You also see the same high-levels of corruption, especially in tech, where former Obama officials are given high-level jobs at the big firms or gig unicorns. Hell, even Obama himself just got a Netflix deal.
  - vertexFarm 8y ago
    People are starting to see a lot of parallels between the US today and the Soviet Union when it fell. I recommend the book Nothing is True and Everything is Possible to get a good feel for that heady, depressing-yet-exciting fall of Rome zeitgeist.
- dahauns 8y ago
  >It's absolutely a desperation career. Indeed it is. What's new is that companies have never been this successful to sell what is basically modern day labour as cool and hip and "good for you!". I guess it only a matter of time until we see a resurgence of night lodgers as this revolutionary new alternative way of housing.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    People don't use it because it's cool and hip, they use it because it's efficient and provides a valuable service. Overhead for managing repetitive and time intensive labor work is high, so when a program can do it, that overhead drops, efficiency increases, and it becomes profitable.
    - dahauns 8y ago
      Sorry, I'm honestly not sure I understand how your comment relates to mine. I'm talking about the gig economy from a workers perspective.
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Oops, my bad, I interpreted the people buying the uber rides and lyft rides as doing it because it's cool and hip, but I see you meant selling to the drivers, not the riders.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Maybe it's a different situation in other countries, but in New Zealand, a lot of uber drivers are actually former taxi drivers. They (at least used to) make more money driving for Uber than driving a taxi. Taxis have always been a gig economy, it's just that you used to have a big sticker on the side of your car. Taxi drivers have never been paid a wage.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Not true, many taxi firms pay their drivers a wage. It's not as usual though.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Huh, did I really got downvoted (can't edit anymore)? I myself co-founded a taxi-like company (city-to-city, operating in the entire Europe) that pays its drivers an hourly wage (https://mydaytrip.com https://mydaytrip.com), and I personally know owners of taxi firms that pay hourly wages.
bryanlarsen 8y ago
It should be the other away around. The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. If you've got food & rent covered some other way but want some extra cash for luxuries, it's nice to have the option to pick up a few gigs. Much of the marketing for Uber drivers implies this fantasy. Maybe BI will make this fantasy a reality.
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  I think it’s UBI that’s the fantasy intended to prevent people from rebelling against this reality.
  - visarga 8y ago
    I actually consider gig economy as a possible replacement for UBI and jobs, but not in this centralised form (Uber, etc). Instead, communities or social networks of people without corporate jobs could become self reliant by working for each other, to solve the community needs on the whole. When corporations take our jobs we still have our needs and lots of free time - and our needs create jobs or gigs. We can still work to support ourselves. Another step to enable self reliance would be the popularisation of new technologies such as open source software, 3d printing, solar power, cheap medical sensors, AI and DIY robotics (including agro-bots). Also, replacing banks with lending co-ops. A small community on the size of a village or town could provide construction, schooling, medical services, servicing tools and machines and of course, agriculture - based on an internal marketplace of gigs or jobs. On the total the community could become more and more independent from the outside. Later on, when automation reaches maturity, the self supporting community could solve most of its needs without much human work and still be independent from the state (UBI) and large-corporation jobs. Because companies are greedy and the state is corrupt, we need to take power back into our hands to prepare for the future.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - njarboe 8y ago
FundThrowaway 8y ago
Interestingly where I live Ubers are usually 50% more expensive than taxis.
- beamatronic 8y ago
  I happily pay a premium for Uber/Lyft; that’s how awful taxis are. I can’t go back.
  - FundThrowaway 8y ago
    Oh yeh me too, even when you use a similar app with taxis the service is awful. At least half the time they call you and cancel as they've just picked someone up on the way to you.
    - skate22 8y ago
      If im somewhere with taxis readily available (like the airport) i just ask the taxi driver if they will match uber's price. Saves me 5 minutes, pays the individual more $
  - nunez 8y ago
    I do the reverse when I’m in NYC. I find TLC cabs to be more reliable. Everyone’s experiences are different!
- ainiriand 8y ago
  Here in Dublin Uber is more expensive but taxis are really great so it is ok.
ryanmercer 8y ago
In my experience here in Indy, a large number of Uber (mind you, the bulk of my experience is Uber Eats) drivers are individuals that appear to be in their 60's, presumably retired persons looking to supplement their income and/or just have something to do. I'd say roughly 5% of my drivers have appeared under retirement age. I wonder what the age statistics look like nationwide.

vertexFarm 8y ago

It's absolutely a desperation career. Those always exist somewhere in any economy, and arguably there should be options available for desperate people, but the sheer volume of them is getting sad. It's like the US has a very poor, developing country double-exposed over an insanely wealthy and advanced one, both occupying the same territory. I'm not a historian but it strikes me as very strange and somewhat new to the world.

jjoske 8y ago
Actually I suspect this has been somewhat the norm through out history, and the last 50-100 years have been some what odd.
- adrianratnapala 8y ago
  Yes, but the "norm through out history" of course contains a lot of variations. If you look at the UK or US during the Industrial Revolution (or China today) you will see poor people doing hard jobs and its all part of a huge economic build-up that makes everyone richer -- even if some people at the top could skim off fortunes. But if you look at even broader history, such as Medieval Europe, or China and India for most of their history, you will still see industrious poor people. But there's little build-up -- just skimming by the people at the top. I think modern India is somewhere in between those two modes. And sometimes I fear that western democracies are converging on the same in-between place, but from the other side.
knuththetruth 8y ago
>I'm not a historian but it strikes me as very strange and somewhat new to the world. It’s similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union, with the opioid crisis taking the place of people drinking themselves to death. You also see the same high-levels of corruption, especially in tech, where former Obama officials are given high-level jobs at the big firms or gig unicorns. Hell, even Obama himself just got a Netflix deal.
- vertexFarm 8y ago
  People are starting to see a lot of parallels between the US today and the Soviet Union when it fell. I recommend the book Nothing is True and Everything is Possible to get a good feel for that heady, depressing-yet-exciting fall of Rome zeitgeist.
dahauns 8y ago
>It's absolutely a desperation career. Indeed it is. What's new is that companies have never been this successful to sell what is basically modern day labour as cool and hip and "good for you!". I guess it only a matter of time until we see a resurgence of night lodgers as this revolutionary new alternative way of housing.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  People don't use it because it's cool and hip, they use it because it's efficient and provides a valuable service. Overhead for managing repetitive and time intensive labor work is high, so when a program can do it, that overhead drops, efficiency increases, and it becomes profitable.
  - dahauns 8y ago
    Sorry, I'm honestly not sure I understand how your comment relates to mine. I'm talking about the gig economy from a workers perspective.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Oops, my bad, I interpreted the people buying the uber rides and lyft rides as doing it because it's cool and hip, but I see you meant selling to the drivers, not the riders.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

Maybe it's a different situation in other countries, but in New Zealand, a lot of uber drivers are actually former taxi drivers. They (at least used to) make more money driving for Uber than driving a taxi. Taxis have always been a gig economy, it's just that you used to have a big sticker on the side of your car. Taxi drivers have never been paid a wage.

TomMarius 8y ago
Not true, many taxi firms pay their drivers a wage. It's not as usual though.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Huh, did I really got downvoted (can't edit anymore)? I myself co-founded a taxi-like company (city-to-city, operating in the entire Europe) that pays its drivers an hourly wage (https://mydaytrip.com https://mydaytrip.com), and I personally know owners of taxi firms that pay hourly wages.

bryanlarsen 8y ago

It should be the other away around. The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. If you've got food & rent covered some other way but want some extra cash for luxuries, it's nice to have the option to pick up a few gigs. Much of the marketing for Uber drivers implies this fantasy. Maybe BI will make this fantasy a reality.

knuththetruth 8y ago
I think it’s UBI that’s the fantasy intended to prevent people from rebelling against this reality.
- visarga 8y ago
  I actually consider gig economy as a possible replacement for UBI and jobs, but not in this centralised form (Uber, etc). Instead, communities or social networks of people without corporate jobs could become self reliant by working for each other, to solve the community needs on the whole. When corporations take our jobs we still have our needs and lots of free time - and our needs create jobs or gigs. We can still work to support ourselves. Another step to enable self reliance would be the popularisation of new technologies such as open source software, 3d printing, solar power, cheap medical sensors, AI and DIY robotics (including agro-bots). Also, replacing banks with lending co-ops. A small community on the size of a village or town could provide construction, schooling, medical services, servicing tools and machines and of course, agriculture - based on an internal marketplace of gigs or jobs. On the total the community could become more and more independent from the outside. Later on, when automation reaches maturity, the self supporting community could solve most of its needs without much human work and still be independent from the state (UBI) and large-corporation jobs. Because companies are greedy and the state is corrupt, we need to take power back into our hands to prepare for the future.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - njarboe 8y ago

FundThrowaway 8y ago

Interestingly where I live Ubers are usually 50% more expensive than taxis.

beamatronic 8y ago
I happily pay a premium for Uber/Lyft; that’s how awful taxis are. I can’t go back.
- FundThrowaway 8y ago
  Oh yeh me too, even when you use a similar app with taxis the service is awful. At least half the time they call you and cancel as they've just picked someone up on the way to you.
  - skate22 8y ago
    If im somewhere with taxis readily available (like the airport) i just ask the taxi driver if they will match uber's price. Saves me 5 minutes, pays the individual more $
- nunez 8y ago
  I do the reverse when I’m in NYC. I find TLC cabs to be more reliable. Everyone’s experiences are different!
ainiriand 8y ago
Here in Dublin Uber is more expensive but taxis are really great so it is ok.

ryanmercer 8y ago

In my experience here in Indy, a large number of Uber (mind you, the bulk of my experience is Uber Eats) drivers are individuals that appear to be in their 60's, presumably retired persons looking to supplement their income and/or just have something to do. I'd say roughly 5% of my drivers have appeared under retirement age. I wonder what the age statistics look like nationwide.