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> On average, it estimated they were making $10.75 per hour in the Houston area, $8.77 per hour in Detroit, and $13.17 in Denver, which was slightly less than W

> On average, it estimated they were making $10.75 per hour in the Houston area, $8.77 per hour in Detroit, and $13.17 in Denver, which was slightly less than Walmart’s average full-time hourly rate in 2016 I'm not saying this is ok, but I think there are also more intangible things that come into play here. Working for Uber gives you the freedom to work when you want. You don't have to call in sick or find someone to take your shift. You just don't get in the car that day. Which really, I think, is the allure of a lot of gig jobs: the ability to be your own boss (kinda).

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
When you’re earning $9 to $14 an hour you don’t take time off. When you’re earning so little you don’t have the freedom to take a day off because you feel unwell.
- Matticus_Rex 8y ago
  Having been in that category of worker and having taken gig jobs, I can promise you that the flexibility of the gig jobs really is a life improvement. I appreciate that you think you're looking out for people, but that kind of sentiment will end up actually harming people because you apparently don't know how we feel about things and can't support policies accordingly.
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    Not to mention, “we” is a pretty varied group. I’ve met Uber drivers who were refugees trying to survive in America and I met one who was a retired Stanford surgeon who just liked to get out of the house and meet people a few times a week. He picked me up in a BMW 5-Series.
    - OJFord 8y ago
      Similarly, one of the hosts (software engineers) on _The Bike Shed_ podcast mentioned driving people around for Lyft in his Tesla just for the excuse (and justification, since it must more than cover fuel) to drive it.
  - hkmurakami 8y ago
    Erratic shift work in retail is definitely worse than gig work. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-retail-scheduling-20180309-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-retail-scheduling-2018... “The Kmart in Los Angeles where Noemi Castro works often doesn't post her schedule until a few days before the week begins, she said. Days off frequently change, as do her hours. Last week, she got 26 hours; this week only eight. Sometimes, Castro said, a last-minute change is made to an online scheduling document without her knowledge. "The manager calls and says, 'Why aren't you here?' " she said.”
    - mwilliaams 8y ago
      I worked in retail...this kind of bad management is everywhere. You expect me to show up when you changed the schedule and didn't tell me? Are you fucking kidding me? Fuck retail, and food service. Seriously.
      - scruple 8y ago
        I avoided retail work after having lived through this (no notice schedule changes) over a single Christmas season. At least when I worked construction sites and warehouses the shifts were static.
- jfoutz 8y ago
  This is pretty much my favorite misfeature of modern American food service jobs. I never want the people handling my food to sneeze. Alas, that’s not the world I live in.
JansjoFromIkea 8y ago
It's the allure for sure but I imagine quite quickly gets proven wrong as you find yourself working certain hours due to higher rates and/or increased demand. With wages that low (these are Uber's own figures too) and close to no upward mobility career wise, it seems like a colossal dead end one could easily become trapped in. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drivers failed to adequately budget for the maintenance costs of their car being used that more heavily too, which could abruptly land them in the red when a garage bill comes in.
- dionidium 8y ago
  >I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drivers failed to adequately budget for the maintenance costs of their car Nearly every car owner fails to adequately budget for (or even understand) the full cost of ownership of their car :) Edit: I forgot my audience for a second. Guys, college-educated engineers and 1% developers aren't typical. People routinely fail to properly account for the TCO. The entire auto-sales model is centered around tricking people into accepting terms worse than the perceived TCO. Don't worry. I wasn't talking about you.
  - fulafel 8y ago
    Even many engineers fail to account for the environmental externalities, which I must be part of any "full cost" model.
  - gruez 8y ago
    >The entire auto-sales model is centered around tricking people into accepting terms worse than the perceived TCO. how? you mean long auto loan periods?
    - mamon 8y ago
      Rather, warranty that comes with mandatory technical inspections at authorized repair shops that cost you fortune, original spare parts that cost you another fortune, not to mention things like upgrading maps in your built in navigation system for 300 USD.
tetromino_ 8y ago
The allure of gig jobs is the ability to turn an arbitrary number of your unproductive hours and an idle car into money. Sometimes you really need that money. I know some people who landed in hard situations where their usual day job would not be enough to cover rent + food + bills. But working the day job and spending 5-6 nights a week driving Uber would be enough. Granted: that's at the expense of not sleeping, not resting, running up their car's mileage, and possibly ruining their health. But the availability of the app has literally saved people from homelessness.
- aninteger 8y ago
  This is very sad. The last thing someone wants is a tired, exhausted driver driving them around.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    See this is the problem. People just don't see giving other people a chance at a livable life as a factor in any decision. Yes, it's probably less than ideal that tired drivers do this. But, mostly, it's a very good thing that this person was able to survive and prevent another homeless family. Let me guess, "the government should just provide for them ?" (without, of course, raising your taxes).
    - dahauns 8y ago
      As someone coming from a country whose government sucessfully provides several means to prevent these kinds of scenarios, the idea of seeing this as a fundamentally good thing frankly strikes me as absurd.
      - lovich 8y ago
        Aye, it's not like our total tax rates are too far off from Western European economies as well. We just spend billions/trillions on other things
      - candiodari 8y ago
suyash 8y ago
Is the hourly rate before or after taxes? Don't forget as independent contractors you have to pay way more in tax than as W2 employee, so take home income will be significantly less.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
> You don't have to call in sick And in countries that have sick leave, it means that you don't get paid for your day off sick. You also don't have a minimum wage as a contractor, because when you're not driving a passenger, you're not "working". For countries with strong labour laws like Australia, it's a massive erosion of workers rights. Most Uber Eats drivers and riders are also making less than minimum wage for the hours they are working. Plus there are no penalty rates for working nights, weekends, or public holidays.
FundThrowaway 8y ago
I wonder how much the true cost is to the driver, not only are they having to pay fuel costs but the more miles a car does the less it's worth. It's almost like swap deal, swapping the future value of your car in return for cash today.
- magicbuzz 8y ago
  Factor in wear and tear on the seats/interior as well, that driving aro7nd by yourself wouldn’t normally occur (unless you have kids)
  - dbuder 8y ago
    and the risk of having an accident and the interest on the capital expense.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

When you’re earning $9 to $14 an hour you don’t take time off. When you’re earning so little you don’t have the freedom to take a day off because you feel unwell.

Matticus_Rex 8y ago
Having been in that category of worker and having taken gig jobs, I can promise you that the flexibility of the gig jobs really is a life improvement. I appreciate that you think you're looking out for people, but that kind of sentiment will end up actually harming people because you apparently don't know how we feel about things and can't support policies accordingly.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Not to mention, “we” is a pretty varied group. I’ve met Uber drivers who were refugees trying to survive in America and I met one who was a retired Stanford surgeon who just liked to get out of the house and meet people a few times a week. He picked me up in a BMW 5-Series.
  - OJFord 8y ago
    Similarly, one of the hosts (software engineers) on _The Bike Shed_ podcast mentioned driving people around for Lyft in his Tesla just for the excuse (and justification, since it must more than cover fuel) to drive it.
- hkmurakami 8y ago
  Erratic shift work in retail is definitely worse than gig work. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-retail-scheduling-20180309-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-retail-scheduling-2018... “The Kmart in Los Angeles where Noemi Castro works often doesn't post her schedule until a few days before the week begins, she said. Days off frequently change, as do her hours. Last week, she got 26 hours; this week only eight. Sometimes, Castro said, a last-minute change is made to an online scheduling document without her knowledge. "The manager calls and says, 'Why aren't you here?' " she said.”
  - mwilliaams 8y ago
    I worked in retail...this kind of bad management is everywhere. You expect me to show up when you changed the schedule and didn't tell me? Are you fucking kidding me? Fuck retail, and food service. Seriously.
    - scruple 8y ago
      I avoided retail work after having lived through this (no notice schedule changes) over a single Christmas season. At least when I worked construction sites and warehouses the shifts were static.
jfoutz 8y ago
This is pretty much my favorite misfeature of modern American food service jobs. I never want the people handling my food to sneeze. Alas, that’s not the world I live in.

JansjoFromIkea 8y ago

It's the allure for sure but I imagine quite quickly gets proven wrong as you find yourself working certain hours due to higher rates and/or increased demand. With wages that low (these are Uber's own figures too) and close to no upward mobility career wise, it seems like a colossal dead end one could easily become trapped in. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drivers failed to adequately budget for the maintenance costs of their car being used that more heavily too, which could abruptly land them in the red when a garage bill comes in.

dionidium 8y ago
>I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drivers failed to adequately budget for the maintenance costs of their car Nearly every car owner fails to adequately budget for (or even understand) the full cost of ownership of their car :) Edit: I forgot my audience for a second. Guys, college-educated engineers and 1% developers aren't typical. People routinely fail to properly account for the TCO. The entire auto-sales model is centered around tricking people into accepting terms worse than the perceived TCO. Don't worry. I wasn't talking about you.
- fulafel 8y ago
  Even many engineers fail to account for the environmental externalities, which I must be part of any "full cost" model.
- gruez 8y ago
  >The entire auto-sales model is centered around tricking people into accepting terms worse than the perceived TCO. how? you mean long auto loan periods?
  - mamon 8y ago
    Rather, warranty that comes with mandatory technical inspections at authorized repair shops that cost you fortune, original spare parts that cost you another fortune, not to mention things like upgrading maps in your built in navigation system for 300 USD.

tetromino_ 8y ago

The allure of gig jobs is the ability to turn an arbitrary number of your unproductive hours and an idle car into money. Sometimes you really need that money. I know some people who landed in hard situations where their usual day job would not be enough to cover rent + food + bills. But working the day job and spending 5-6 nights a week driving Uber would be enough. Granted: that's at the expense of not sleeping, not resting, running up their car's mileage, and possibly ruining their health. But the availability of the app has literally saved people from homelessness.

aninteger 8y ago
This is very sad. The last thing someone wants is a tired, exhausted driver driving them around.
- candiodari 8y ago
  See this is the problem. People just don't see giving other people a chance at a livable life as a factor in any decision. Yes, it's probably less than ideal that tired drivers do this. But, mostly, it's a very good thing that this person was able to survive and prevent another homeless family. Let me guess, "the government should just provide for them ?" (without, of course, raising your taxes).
  - dahauns 8y ago
    As someone coming from a country whose government sucessfully provides several means to prevent these kinds of scenarios, the idea of seeing this as a fundamentally good thing frankly strikes me as absurd.
    - lovich 8y ago
      Aye, it's not like our total tax rates are too far off from Western European economies as well. We just spend billions/trillions on other things
    - candiodari 8y ago

suyash 8y ago

Is the hourly rate before or after taxes? Don't forget as independent contractors you have to pay way more in tax than as W2 employee, so take home income will be significantly less.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

> You don't have to call in sick And in countries that have sick leave, it means that you don't get paid for your day off sick. You also don't have a minimum wage as a contractor, because when you're not driving a passenger, you're not "working". For countries with strong labour laws like Australia, it's a massive erosion of workers rights. Most Uber Eats drivers and riders are also making less than minimum wage for the hours they are working. Plus there are no penalty rates for working nights, weekends, or public holidays.

FundThrowaway 8y ago

I wonder how much the true cost is to the driver, not only are they having to pay fuel costs but the more miles a car does the less it's worth. It's almost like swap deal, swapping the future value of your car in return for cash today.

magicbuzz 8y ago
Factor in wear and tear on the seats/interior as well, that driving aro7nd by yourself wouldn’t normally occur (unless you have kids)
- dbuder 8y ago
  and the risk of having an accident and the interest on the capital expense.