3 ms·

You are quite simply wrong. When you negotiate severance in an at-will employment agreement, it will involve the same kinds of contractual documents you have to

by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

You are quite simply wrong. When you negotiate severance in an at-will employment agreement, it will involve the same kinds of contractual documents you have to sign as when you are offered severance upon a sudden termination. There are usually documents relating to non-disparagement and possibly enhanced agreements about non-disclosure or non-compete that extend beyond things in the company handbook. They include specific language in which you acknowledge the employer is offering you something of material value, the severance pay, continuation of benefits, etc., in exchange for your agreement to those conditions, and generally also a waiver of ability to make claims for additional compensation. These are generally legally enforceable, and severance is not merely a discretionary component that is up to the company. It's something you can (generally without that much trouble) actually sue for, similar to unpaid wages, if the company terminates you without paying. I have never once heard of a company requiring a C-suite executive to get involved for creating these very routine types of severance agreements for regular employees, and I myself have negotiated severance in a standard at-will employment agreement at my three most recent jobs.

rootusrootus 8y ago
As a hiring manager myself I have not run across this situation, but now I am curious. I'm going to get together with our HR folks and ask them what would happen if a candidate made such a demand. I don't work for a huge company, but with a couple thousand U.S. employees we are not tiny either. I am interested in what I hear back. I would certainly never have negotiated this myself while looking for a job so it will be educational either way. Thanks for giving me something to think about!
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  I’m surprised to hear that it’s not that common for your firm. Negotiating severance is common enough that e.g. when I talk to third party recruiting firms for hiring for my team, it’s one of the first questions they ask. Large firms usually have a very low baseline severance plan calculated something like 1 week of pay for each year of tenure, and they may say in the handbook it is only offered on a discretionary basis at the time of termination. But I’ve always had no problem negotiating a customized severance package regardless of whether a firm had that sort of policy, especially because severance should fairly reflect compensation for any time or opportunity costs an employee might endure due to a non-compete agreement, etc., which means usually it should be at least several months of salary and possibly continuation of benefits (e.g. not externalizing that cost to the employee through COBRA but actually continuing to pay their premiums for a set amount of months). Huge companies are harder to convince of this, and in that case I was able to negotiate the severance amount to instead be paid as a sign-on bonus, so that saving the money to cover costs in the event of being terminated was my responsibility, but the company still agreed to pay for it.
logfromblammo 8y ago
Every potential employer I have talked to in "at will" states (WI, IL, IN, TN, AL) has made it clear, on application, that I would not have a contract, and that I should not consider any document I receive to be a contract unless it is signed by the CEO. On the occasions when I brought it up (3), I was told in each instance that the company did not have severance agreements, and that they would not discuss it further. I stopped asking after that, and just rolled it into my salary expectation. Don't tell me I'm wrong. I lived it. They don't want to do it because, like offering vacation instead of PTO, it represents a cost of firing someone. They very much want to be able to drop anyone, at any time, for free, as that means they don't need to set aside money for firing people.

rootusrootus 8y ago

As a hiring manager myself I have not run across this situation, but now I am curious. I'm going to get together with our HR folks and ask them what would happen if a candidate made such a demand. I don't work for a huge company, but with a couple thousand U.S. employees we are not tiny either. I am interested in what I hear back. I would certainly never have negotiated this myself while looking for a job so it will be educational either way. Thanks for giving me something to think about!

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
I’m surprised to hear that it’s not that common for your firm. Negotiating severance is common enough that e.g. when I talk to third party recruiting firms for hiring for my team, it’s one of the first questions they ask. Large firms usually have a very low baseline severance plan calculated something like 1 week of pay for each year of tenure, and they may say in the handbook it is only offered on a discretionary basis at the time of termination. But I’ve always had no problem negotiating a customized severance package regardless of whether a firm had that sort of policy, especially because severance should fairly reflect compensation for any time or opportunity costs an employee might endure due to a non-compete agreement, etc., which means usually it should be at least several months of salary and possibly continuation of benefits (e.g. not externalizing that cost to the employee through COBRA but actually continuing to pay their premiums for a set amount of months). Huge companies are harder to convince of this, and in that case I was able to negotiate the severance amount to instead be paid as a sign-on bonus, so that saving the money to cover costs in the event of being terminated was my responsibility, but the company still agreed to pay for it.

logfromblammo 8y ago

Every potential employer I have talked to in "at will" states (WI, IL, IN, TN, AL) has made it clear, on application, that I would not have a contract, and that I should not consider any document I receive to be a contract unless it is signed by the CEO. On the occasions when I brought it up (3), I was told in each instance that the company did not have severance agreements, and that they would not discuss it further. I stopped asking after that, and just rolled it into my salary expectation. Don't tell me I'm wrong. I lived it. They don't want to do it because, like offering vacation instead of PTO, it represents a cost of firing someone. They very much want to be able to drop anyone, at any time, for free, as that means they don't need to set aside money for firing people.