4 ms·

I'm just going to point out that this sets a troubling precedent. If one firm thinks it's legitimate to discriminate in favor of mothers with children, that su

I'm just going to point out that this sets a troubling precedent. If one firm thinks it's legitimate to discriminate in favor of mothers with children, that suggests that being a parent is an acceptable basis on which to discriminate. It opens the door to people thinking about whether somebody is a mother in making hiring decisions. That's troubling on a lot of levels, and in some states illegal. EDIT: apparently the source has been revised to make it clear that the point is just to look evenly at parents and non-parents; that's OK, but I'll leave the comment above in reference to the earlier version.

breily 19y ago
He did post a revised version shortly after I submitted it - http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/996-why-i-love-working-with-family-people http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/996-why-i-love-working-wi... - Deals more with 'why working with family people is awesome' instead of just 'you should hire family people.' "Update: Removed potential confusion around labor discrimination."
comatose_kid 19y ago
He's not advocating that you should only hire people with families. He's just saying that people with families shouldn't be discriminated against in a startup world that seems to value youth, because they can be as productive.
DaniFong 19y ago
Laws or not, in the startup world there's a lot of discrimination when it comes to hiring decisions.
- jrockway 19y ago
  And the laws are kind of weird. If you say you discriminate, but don't, you've committed a crime. If you say you don't discriminate, but do, it's not a crime. (I think the reality is that everyone discriminates in favor of "people they like" anyway. It is somewhat scary that we have so many thought crimes now.)
  - DaniFong 19y ago
    There are certain examples of hiring discrimination which are pretty clear cut. I am not sure if the cases have been tested in court, however. See for example http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000001.html http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000001.... The paper is "Implicit Discrimination." Marianne Bertrand, Dolly Chugh and Sendhil Mullainathan; American Economic Review, 2005, 95(2), pp. 94-98. if you have access. Unfortunately, I don't at this time. The basic results are that a resume with a 'black' name versus a 'white' name (and no other difference) are far less likely to fetch callbacks. Further, there's no appreciable difference in callbacks for black candidates with increasing skills, whereas there's a drastic increase for white candidates. There are many other studies, and then there's my own, personal experience, which I'm not about to get into.
    - hacklite 19y ago
      I presume you're referring to age/gender discrimination. At least people generally recognize that sexism is wrong. There is a lot less raised consciousness when it comes to ageism. You start college early, and everyone says you're too young. And then later, ironically, you find when you hit 30 that the thinking has recently shifted when it comes to start-ups, so then you're too old.

breily 19y ago

He did post a revised version shortly after I submitted it - http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/996-why-i-love-working-with-family-people http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/996-why-i-love-working-wi... - Deals more with 'why working with family people is awesome' instead of just 'you should hire family people.' "Update: Removed potential confusion around labor discrimination."

comatose_kid 19y ago

He's not advocating that you should only hire people with families. He's just saying that people with families shouldn't be discriminated against in a startup world that seems to value youth, because they can be as productive.

DaniFong 19y ago

Laws or not, in the startup world there's a lot of discrimination when it comes to hiring decisions.

jrockway 19y ago
And the laws are kind of weird. If you say you discriminate, but don't, you've committed a crime. If you say you don't discriminate, but do, it's not a crime. (I think the reality is that everyone discriminates in favor of "people they like" anyway. It is somewhat scary that we have so many thought crimes now.)
- DaniFong 19y ago
  There are certain examples of hiring discrimination which are pretty clear cut. I am not sure if the cases have been tested in court, however. See for example http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000001.html http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20030430-000001.... The paper is "Implicit Discrimination." Marianne Bertrand, Dolly Chugh and Sendhil Mullainathan; American Economic Review, 2005, 95(2), pp. 94-98. if you have access. Unfortunately, I don't at this time. The basic results are that a resume with a 'black' name versus a 'white' name (and no other difference) are far less likely to fetch callbacks. Further, there's no appreciable difference in callbacks for black candidates with increasing skills, whereas there's a drastic increase for white candidates. There are many other studies, and then there's my own, personal experience, which I'm not about to get into.
  - hacklite 19y ago
    I presume you're referring to age/gender discrimination. At least people generally recognize that sexism is wrong. There is a lot less raised consciousness when it comes to ageism. You start college early, and everyone says you're too young. And then later, ironically, you find when you hit 30 that the thinking has recently shifted when it comes to start-ups, so then you're too old.