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The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexis

The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition rather than a prime cause for these types of mental issues.

eganist 8y ago
Do you have citations for the following? • extremely small portion • trigger for a pre-existing condition
- stouset 8y ago
  I don't. I'm simply restating what seems to be general consensus amongst both users and mental health professionals. Actual data is hard to come by, since actual research has only recently begun to happen. At this point though, any assertion that psychedelics cause anything more than a very slight increase in the background rates of diseases like schizophrenia would need a serious amount of evidence to back it up. Psychedelic use is common; something like 15—20% of the American population tries them in their life. And the general understanding of diseases like schizophrenia right now involves actual structural changes that simply aren't plausible consequences of infrequent psychedelic use. I won't speak toward long-term, frequent use, but by all the evidence I've personally seen, LSD in particular is extraordinarily safe for the population of people without a family history of schizophrenia. I'd also like to point out that the original assertion—that psychedelics trigger psychotic breaks—itself doesn't come along with that much in the way of evidence. The original notion came about in the '70s when mental health professionals started seeing a higher proportion of their patents coming in after having tried psychedelics. I'm not sure if hard data was collected (or at least, I haven't been able to find any), but the most straightforward explanation for this is that this likely simply mirrored the increase in the background rate of people using psychedelics. If the background rate went from 1:10 to 2:10, then you'd expect that the number of people coming in with mental health issues will show a doubling in psychedelic usage rates. And in the fifty years since then, I've not seen much additional evidence for a causal link between the two.
gepi79 8y ago
> The general consensus is Your consensus might be general among irresponsible psychonauts that are either lucky or accept psychosis. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede... The general consensus is to use psychedelics only as part of a therapy under supervision of a medical expert. https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality-long-term.html https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit... > an extremely small portion of the population https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers > typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition How does this reduce the danger of psychedelics in any way ? It increases the danger because you do not know in advance if the drug will trigger a mental disorder that you do not have yet. A bad trip triggered by psychedelics might be your first trauma with PTSD. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/36gj2h/can_ptsd_be_caused_by_a_bad_trip/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/36gj2h/can_ptsd_be_c...
- stouset 8y ago
  > Your consensus is only general among irresponsible psychonauts that were lucky enough in the past. You're using the words "irresponsible" and "lucky" here to trigger an emotional response that these kinds of risks are anything but rare, which simply isn't supported by any data. I "irresponsibly" crossed the street today. Am I "lucky" I wasn't run over by a bus? > The general consensus is to use psychedelics only as part of a therapy under supervision by a medical expert. And the general consensus is to always consult your doctor before beginning any kind of exercise program. This is a standard CYA position adopted by the medical profession. > https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers Nobody is denying that mental health problems are real and prevalent. The link between psychedelics and the onset mental health problems is what's at issue. 15%–20% of the US population tries psychedelics in their lifetime, and 5% of US adults experience a serious mental illness each year. Mental illness is clearly a huge problem with or without psychedelics, and the zeitgeist of research into these substances in the past decade has been almost universally uncovering the ways they can be used to help the situation. > How does this reduce the danger of psychedelics in any way ? It increases the danger because you do not know in advance if the drug will trigger your mental disorder that you do not have yet. Many people have the underlying structural changes in their brain that indicate an imminent onset of symptoms of schizophrenia. In cases like this, it's theorized (but again, data is scant) that psychedelics like LSD can be a triggering event that brings about an onset of symptoms, but ones that were all but inevitable anyway. That's not to say that the loss of even a month or week of sanity isn't tragic, but I've seen very little in the way of evidence that occasional LSD use in particular is substantially more risky for the average mentally healthy person than any other recreational activity one might engage in.

eganist 8y ago

Do you have citations for the following? • extremely small portion • trigger for a pre-existing condition

stouset 8y ago
I don't. I'm simply restating what seems to be general consensus amongst both users and mental health professionals. Actual data is hard to come by, since actual research has only recently begun to happen. At this point though, any assertion that psychedelics cause anything more than a very slight increase in the background rates of diseases like schizophrenia would need a serious amount of evidence to back it up. Psychedelic use is common; something like 15—20% of the American population tries them in their life. And the general understanding of diseases like schizophrenia right now involves actual structural changes that simply aren't plausible consequences of infrequent psychedelic use. I won't speak toward long-term, frequent use, but by all the evidence I've personally seen, LSD in particular is extraordinarily safe for the population of people without a family history of schizophrenia. I'd also like to point out that the original assertion—that psychedelics trigger psychotic breaks—itself doesn't come along with that much in the way of evidence. The original notion came about in the '70s when mental health professionals started seeing a higher proportion of their patents coming in after having tried psychedelics. I'm not sure if hard data was collected (or at least, I haven't been able to find any), but the most straightforward explanation for this is that this likely simply mirrored the increase in the background rate of people using psychedelics. If the background rate went from 1:10 to 2:10, then you'd expect that the number of people coming in with mental health issues will show a doubling in psychedelic usage rates. And in the fifty years since then, I've not seen much additional evidence for a causal link between the two.

gepi79 8y ago

> The general consensus is Your consensus might be general among irresponsible psychonauts that are either lucky or accept psychosis. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede... The general consensus is to use psychedelics only as part of a therapy under supervision of a medical expert. https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality-long-term.html https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit... > an extremely small portion of the population https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers > typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition How does this reduce the danger of psychedelics in any way ? It increases the danger because you do not know in advance if the drug will trigger a mental disorder that you do not have yet. A bad trip triggered by psychedelics might be your first trauma with PTSD. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/36gj2h/can_ptsd_be_caused_by_a_bad_trip/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/36gj2h/can_ptsd_be_c...

stouset 8y ago
> Your consensus is only general among irresponsible psychonauts that were lucky enough in the past. You're using the words "irresponsible" and "lucky" here to trigger an emotional response that these kinds of risks are anything but rare, which simply isn't supported by any data. I "irresponsibly" crossed the street today. Am I "lucky" I wasn't run over by a bus? > The general consensus is to use psychedelics only as part of a therapy under supervision by a medical expert. And the general consensus is to always consult your doctor before beginning any kind of exercise program. This is a standard CYA position adopted by the medical profession. > https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers Nobody is denying that mental health problems are real and prevalent. The link between psychedelics and the onset mental health problems is what's at issue. 15%–20% of the US population tries psychedelics in their lifetime, and 5% of US adults experience a serious mental illness each year. Mental illness is clearly a huge problem with or without psychedelics, and the zeitgeist of research into these substances in the past decade has been almost universally uncovering the ways they can be used to help the situation. > How does this reduce the danger of psychedelics in any way ? It increases the danger because you do not know in advance if the drug will trigger your mental disorder that you do not have yet. Many people have the underlying structural changes in their brain that indicate an imminent onset of symptoms of schizophrenia. In cases like this, it's theorized (but again, data is scant) that psychedelics like LSD can be a triggering event that brings about an onset of symptoms, but ones that were all but inevitable anyway. That's not to say that the loss of even a month or week of sanity isn't tragic, but I've seen very little in the way of evidence that occasional LSD use in particular is substantially more risky for the average mentally healthy person than any other recreational activity one might engage in.