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Over time people build up useful heuristics. There is a difference between questioning authority vs questioning why tuesdays exist and if maybe it's sunday for

by koube 8y ago

Over time people build up useful heuristics. There is a difference between questioning authority vs questioning why tuesdays exist and if maybe it's sunday for dogs.

nonbel 8y ago
>"questioning why tuesdays exist" I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Just some stream of thought: What does tuesday mean anyway, why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week, what is the exact definition of day, could there be planets without "days", do dogs recognize a weekly cycle, would they if "freerunning" without human companionship, what about wolves who "howl at the moon", does that mean they recognize the lunar cycle, in that case maybe they also mentally divide it up into subsets greater than a day but less than a full month, how could we study wolf behaviour to try to figure this out, why exactly do I feel like there is a difference between sunday and tuesday, just because one is during the weekend or something more, do wild packs of wolves/dogs take regular days off from hunting/etc, what do they do in their free time?
- godelski 8y ago
  > why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week Because it is useful to divide up things into increments. 7 because there are 7 visible celestial bodies visible to the naked eye. Which the names derive from. > What does tuesday mean anyway Mars's day > what is the exact definition of day A singular rotation of the planet. Also known as a sidereal day. Or more simply put: sun goes up, sun goes down. > could there be planets without "days" Yes, these are known as tidally locked. Some planets have long days. Venus has a longer day than year (rotation of planet around parent star) > I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Yes, but answers are also reasonably found. Don't just stop and think, but also seek. That's why we think differently about the person who is like "wow man, what even is Tuesday" and the person that discussed the historical reasoning and mythos that led to the naming of Tuesday and why having a seven day week is so pervasive throughout the world, leading back to ancients looking up at the sky (which was better than what most of us see, considering light pollution). Sometimes things are extraordinary and sometimes they are mundane. There's a lot of usefulness into relying on historical knowledge. That's why we advanced so far. And by finding the breath of our current understandings you will find new and deeper questions. Tldr: don't just question, find answers.
  - nonbel 8y ago
    >"Yes, but answers are also reasonably found You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... >"the person that discussed the historical reasoning and mythos that led to the naming of Tuesday and why having a seven day week is so pervasive throughout the world, leading back to ancients looking up at the sky (which was better than what most of us see, considering light pollution)." You should question this as well. Have you ever considered there was a period where the ancients could not see the stars, moon, or sun due to excess clouds, smoke or dust blocking the view? Perhaps an asteroid hit, or there was a lot of volcanic activity, or whatever. Imagine if it was always cloudy, perhaps this even lasted for a generation or two so that no one alive had ever seen any of that, then suddenly the sun appears through a break in the clouds. This would explain why the bible claims that light was created before the sun.
    - godelski 8y ago
      > You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... You were just saying you shouldn't directly trust people and I'm saying you should also dig. You asked a lot of questions, I don't have the answer to all of them, but somebody might. And that's why I say dig. Somebody might have already done the work. I for one am not omniscient, don't just counter everyone with "well you don't know everything", it isn't useful and is a non sequitur to the topic at hand. The answers were to illustrate a point, not to provide exactness. And your entire reply missed what I was saying because you were caught up in minutia. > You should question this as well. Are you talking about when the asteroid hit or are you suggesting a fictitious example? If the former I suggest looking at a timeline of human evolution and studying more about animal behavior. The latter, yeah thought experiments are fun. Who is saying they aren't? I'm definitely not. I'm not even disagreeing with your main point, I'm expanding on it. I'm literally saying don't just ask a question and stop. Ask a question and search for an answer! And you might like a story called Night by Isaac Asimov. It does discuss what is likely to happen with civilizations capable of communication, mythos (and included exaggeration). > This would explain why the Bible claims that light was created before the sun. We're taking about questioning things and you're taking the Bible as directly literal? Maybe you should question that.
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
  It’s incredibly mentally exhausting and you’ll miss several things that flag you as a comfortable human being in your own existence to others, thereby shortening your ability to function as a socially wholesome creature. (Note: I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting.)
  - nonbel 8y ago
    >"I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting." Being forced to do anything will be exhausting, it is totally different from having the ability to do so if you so choose.
  - s-shellfish 8y ago
    Some questions are purely abstract without any relation to self, personal identity, self image from others, affect on others as well as neither being interpretations of the past or predictions of the future. I find those types of questions to be relaxing and interesting. As soon as I begin to connect those questions to either, their relation to my own awareness as a social being, that's when they become exhausting. That's because I stop thinking about the question as a pure question, and I begin believing I can know how both I and others think about it, in addition to any other number of details present (of which, not only are there thoughts to be had about how others think of those details, but how all of those thoughts will eventually influence how others think about all the minutia in addition to original thought, and how that will affect how you think eventually, and thinking about all of that - if you choose to, it doesn't end!). When oneself thinks about how others think, oneself is still thinking about how oneself thinks. Not in the direct way, where oneself knows exactly how another thinks at a precise moment, but the thoughts oneself has about others influence the thoughts oneself has about oneself, eventually, even if you've thought all the thoughts you can besides the thoughts you've worked ridiculously hard to avoid, eventually oneself has to confront all the thoughts that remain, lest they prefer to just chant 'om'. So gimme all the ridiculous, disconnected from reality problems you have. Because I absolutely loathe having to think about how my thoughts affect my thoughts and how my thoughts affect how others think their thoughts and how their thoughts affect their thoughts in the future and how those thoughts will eventually affect my thoughts. That's exhausting, you can't keep up with it. Even if you are right about how someone else thinks, they can always change how they think, for no reason besides they either know how you think, or they think they know you think they know how they think. But otherwise. yea, I get that it seems like it can't be avoided. Because people seem to expect some degree of you thinking for them if they think for you, that's socially wholesome, I suppose. It's all absurd to me. Tuesdays. Tuesdays are weird indeed.
- rjurney 8y ago
  It becomes not optional and is a waste of time. People get stuck questioning everything and become useless piles of flesh. It happened to me for a couple of years after too much LSD.
zaroth 8y ago
Clearly it is always Sunday for dogs.

by koube 8y ago

Over time people build up useful heuristics. There is a difference between questioning authority vs questioning why tuesdays exist and if maybe it's sunday for dogs.

nonbel 8y ago

>"questioning why tuesdays exist" I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Just some stream of thought: What does tuesday mean anyway, why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week, what is the exact definition of day, could there be planets without "days", do dogs recognize a weekly cycle, would they if "freerunning" without human companionship, what about wolves who "howl at the moon", does that mean they recognize the lunar cycle, in that case maybe they also mentally divide it up into subsets greater than a day but less than a full month, how could we study wolf behaviour to try to figure this out, why exactly do I feel like there is a difference between sunday and tuesday, just because one is during the weekend or something more, do wild packs of wolves/dogs take regular days off from hunting/etc, what do they do in their free time?

godelski 8y ago
> why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week Because it is useful to divide up things into increments. 7 because there are 7 visible celestial bodies visible to the naked eye. Which the names derive from. > What does tuesday mean anyway Mars's day > what is the exact definition of day A singular rotation of the planet. Also known as a sidereal day. Or more simply put: sun goes up, sun goes down. > could there be planets without "days" Yes, these are known as tidally locked. Some planets have long days. Venus has a longer day than year (rotation of planet around parent star) > I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Yes, but answers are also reasonably found. Don't just stop and think, but also seek. That's why we think differently about the person who is like "wow man, what even is Tuesday" and the person that discussed the historical reasoning and mythos that led to the naming of Tuesday and why having a seven day week is so pervasive throughout the world, leading back to ancients looking up at the sky (which was better than what most of us see, considering light pollution). Sometimes things are extraordinary and sometimes they are mundane. There's a lot of usefulness into relying on historical knowledge. That's why we advanced so far. And by finding the breath of our current understandings you will find new and deeper questions. Tldr: don't just question, find answers.
- nonbel 8y ago
  >"Yes, but answers are also reasonably found You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... >"the person that discussed the historical reasoning and mythos that led to the naming of Tuesday and why having a seven day week is so pervasive throughout the world, leading back to ancients looking up at the sky (which was better than what most of us see, considering light pollution)." You should question this as well. Have you ever considered there was a period where the ancients could not see the stars, moon, or sun due to excess clouds, smoke or dust blocking the view? Perhaps an asteroid hit, or there was a lot of volcanic activity, or whatever. Imagine if it was always cloudy, perhaps this even lasted for a generation or two so that no one alive had ever seen any of that, then suddenly the sun appears through a break in the clouds. This would explain why the bible claims that light was created before the sun.
  - godelski 8y ago
    > You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... You were just saying you shouldn't directly trust people and I'm saying you should also dig. You asked a lot of questions, I don't have the answer to all of them, but somebody might. And that's why I say dig. Somebody might have already done the work. I for one am not omniscient, don't just counter everyone with "well you don't know everything", it isn't useful and is a non sequitur to the topic at hand. The answers were to illustrate a point, not to provide exactness. And your entire reply missed what I was saying because you were caught up in minutia. > You should question this as well. Are you talking about when the asteroid hit or are you suggesting a fictitious example? If the former I suggest looking at a timeline of human evolution and studying more about animal behavior. The latter, yeah thought experiments are fun. Who is saying they aren't? I'm definitely not. I'm not even disagreeing with your main point, I'm expanding on it. I'm literally saying don't just ask a question and stop. Ask a question and search for an answer! And you might like a story called Night by Isaac Asimov. It does discuss what is likely to happen with civilizations capable of communication, mythos (and included exaggeration). > This would explain why the Bible claims that light was created before the sun. We're taking about questioning things and you're taking the Bible as directly literal? Maybe you should question that.
SolaceQuantum 8y ago
It’s incredibly mentally exhausting and you’ll miss several things that flag you as a comfortable human being in your own existence to others, thereby shortening your ability to function as a socially wholesome creature. (Note: I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting.)
- nonbel 8y ago
  >"I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting." Being forced to do anything will be exhausting, it is totally different from having the ability to do so if you so choose.
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  Some questions are purely abstract without any relation to self, personal identity, self image from others, affect on others as well as neither being interpretations of the past or predictions of the future. I find those types of questions to be relaxing and interesting. As soon as I begin to connect those questions to either, their relation to my own awareness as a social being, that's when they become exhausting. That's because I stop thinking about the question as a pure question, and I begin believing I can know how both I and others think about it, in addition to any other number of details present (of which, not only are there thoughts to be had about how others think of those details, but how all of those thoughts will eventually influence how others think about all the minutia in addition to original thought, and how that will affect how you think eventually, and thinking about all of that - if you choose to, it doesn't end!). When oneself thinks about how others think, oneself is still thinking about how oneself thinks. Not in the direct way, where oneself knows exactly how another thinks at a precise moment, but the thoughts oneself has about others influence the thoughts oneself has about oneself, eventually, even if you've thought all the thoughts you can besides the thoughts you've worked ridiculously hard to avoid, eventually oneself has to confront all the thoughts that remain, lest they prefer to just chant 'om'. So gimme all the ridiculous, disconnected from reality problems you have. Because I absolutely loathe having to think about how my thoughts affect my thoughts and how my thoughts affect how others think their thoughts and how their thoughts affect their thoughts in the future and how those thoughts will eventually affect my thoughts. That's exhausting, you can't keep up with it. Even if you are right about how someone else thinks, they can always change how they think, for no reason besides they either know how you think, or they think they know you think they know how they think. But otherwise. yea, I get that it seems like it can't be avoided. Because people seem to expect some degree of you thinking for them if they think for you, that's socially wholesome, I suppose. It's all absurd to me. Tuesdays. Tuesdays are weird indeed.
rjurney 8y ago
It becomes not optional and is a waste of time. People get stuck questioning everything and become useless piles of flesh. It happened to me for a couple of years after too much LSD.

zaroth 8y ago

Clearly it is always Sunday for dogs.