4 ms·

Here's pie-in-the-sky idea, what about building high-voltage transmission lines across the continent? In the case of US, New York at 8PM would get electricity

Here's pie-in-the-sky idea, what about building high-voltage transmission lines across the continent? In the case of US, New York at 8PM would get electricity from California at 4PM. There would be some losses from transmitting power for such large distance, but shouldn't it be better than just wasting energy or storing energy even less efficiently?

kfarr 8y ago
Seems like it's not such a crazy (pie in sky) idea after all: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609766/how-to-get-wyoming-wind-to-california-and-cut-80-of-us-carbon-emissions/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609766/how-to-get-wyoming...
sfsafsaf 8y ago
Its not great. Even before solar the advantage of a cross continental TL were there (namely ironing out the demand curve, hydro storage, ect). To limit resistive losses you have to go to really high V -> massive pylons (there were some built behind the iron curtain). But you still have capacitive coupling (and reflections after the TL is larger than $\lambda$/10 -> You need to go to very low f or even DC But high V. DC is hard! and low f AC is massive. Ultimately it hasn't been done because it hasn't been worthwhile.
- lutorm 8y ago
  HVDC is harder than AC transmission, but isn't it a solved problem? "In July 2016, ABB Group received a contract in China to build an ultrahigh-voltage direct-current (UHVDC) land link with a 1100 kV voltage, a 3,000 km (1,900 mi) length and 12 GW of power, setting world records for highest voltage, longest distance, and largest transmission capacity." (From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current)
- asafira 8y ago
  Can you expend on some of these, or give a reference? Specifically, why does going to high voltage limit resistive losses? Why does really high V mean massive pylons? Why is low frequency AC massive?
  - magicalhippo 8y ago
    P = V * I [1], and V = I * R [2], so P = I^2 * R. So to minimize power loss in the cables, you want to minimize the current. In order to transfer the same amount of power, you need to increase the voltage. Not sure about the pylon sizes. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law
jgamman 8y ago
NZ has been running an 600 km HVDC line for decades for exactly the same reason - lots of hydropower in the south, lots of demand in the north. difficult? certainly. but it's definitely a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island

kfarr 8y ago

Seems like it's not such a crazy (pie in sky) idea after all: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609766/how-to-get-wyoming-wind-to-california-and-cut-80-of-us-carbon-emissions/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609766/how-to-get-wyoming...

sfsafsaf 8y ago

Its not great. Even before solar the advantage of a cross continental TL were there (namely ironing out the demand curve, hydro storage, ect). To limit resistive losses you have to go to really high V -> massive pylons (there were some built behind the iron curtain). But you still have capacitive coupling (and reflections after the TL is larger than $\lambda$/10 -> You need to go to very low f or even DC But high V. DC is hard! and low f AC is massive. Ultimately it hasn't been done because it hasn't been worthwhile.

lutorm 8y ago
HVDC is harder than AC transmission, but isn't it a solved problem? "In July 2016, ABB Group received a contract in China to build an ultrahigh-voltage direct-current (UHVDC) land link with a 1100 kV voltage, a 3,000 km (1,900 mi) length and 12 GW of power, setting world records for highest voltage, longest distance, and largest transmission capacity." (From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current)
asafira 8y ago
Can you expend on some of these, or give a reference? Specifically, why does going to high voltage limit resistive losses? Why does really high V mean massive pylons? Why is low frequency AC massive?
- magicalhippo 8y ago
  P = V * I [1], and V = I * R [2], so P = I^2 * R. So to minimize power loss in the cables, you want to minimize the current. In order to transfer the same amount of power, you need to increase the voltage. Not sure about the pylon sizes. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law

jgamman 8y ago

NZ has been running an 600 km HVDC line for decades for exactly the same reason - lots of hydropower in the south, lots of demand in the north. difficult? certainly. but it's definitely a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Inter-Island