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There has been sudden glut of articles about scooter startups here on HN and elsewhere. And I am scratching my head trying to understand what exactly is the end

There has been sudden glut of articles about scooter startups here on HN and elsewhere. And I am scratching my head trying to understand what exactly is the end game plan here? If self driving cars and Uber etc succeed then all commuting will be through cars, how will these scooters fit in that picture?

NullPrefix 8y ago
All the eggs in one basket.
ceejayoz 8y ago
You-drive cars haven't replaced you-drive scooters. Why would self-drive cars replace them? Sometimes you want to be out in the fresh air, they're cheaper than a car to rent/maintain, and they can get places cars can't.
aboodman 8y ago
1/ I think people assume that self-driving cars will "succeed" in a binary sense. I do not think that is how it plays out. I think there is a long, slow process of self-driving cars working a little better in a little more places. In busy, urban centers, self-driving cars are going to be a long time coming. 2/ No matter how self-driving the car, in busy environments, scooters are going to get you from a) to b) faster.
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  You are correct, sir! Re: the non-binary, long slog to some type of self driving vehicle - I think we're already starting to see this realization sink in with the actual engineers, leaders, and investors in this space.
hunter23 8y ago
do you really want to wait for a self driving uber for a 0.4 commute through traffic clogged streets during rush hour? Cars aren't one size fit all solutions for all your transportation; the point of the scooters are to serve as last mile transport.
- inostia 8y ago
  Are people really that lazy that they can't ride bicycles anymore?
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    The closer your transportation form factor is to that of vehicles that we expect to be registered, insured, and not operated in a completely stupid manner the more rules you have to follow. Scooters are held to a lower standard than electric scooters which are held to a lower standard than bikes which are held to a lower standard than (fully) electric bikes which are held to a lower standard than bikes with a Chinese 2-stroke kit which are held to a lower standard than 50cc commercial mopeds which are held to a lower standard than larger commercial moped which are held to a lower standard than motorcycles and cars. The boundaries between classes are fuzzy and there's a lot of variability in expectations and enforcement but generally speaking the more rules you have to follow the less convenient. You can't park a motorcycle in a bike rack (well you can but you'll have to make an involuntary contribution to local government if you do so) but nobody will care if you park a moped in a bike rack. You can't blow red lights and stops in a moped but most people won't care if you do it on a bike. It's generally not considered polite to ride a bike on the sidewalks but you can get away with an electric scooter most of the time. The trade off of being able to get away with ignoring more rules is that the smaller form factors can't travel as far or as fast.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  People can't just walk the 4 blocks? It would take less time than waiting for an Uber, self-driving or not.
Eric_WVGG 8y ago
Lots of folks think self-driving cars are just replacing one problem with another. (A car, after all, is a really a moving room; but we don't want to move rooms, we want to move people.) http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/05/technology/bikes-disrupt-cars/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/05/technology/bikes-disrupt-car...
- jgh 8y ago
  Although electric scooters aren't a great replacement for self-driving cars in a lot of places that aren't California.
  - woolvalley 8y ago
    You can bike in london and seattle too. Even in snowy canada.
    - jgh 8y ago
      Bikes have bigger wheels than scooters.. Try an electric scooter in a few inches of slush ;)
- nathanaldensr 8y ago
  I walked 1/4 of a mile from work to my hotel room today. In Houston. In 95 degree, extremely humid air. In direct sunlight. I knew I should've called the hotel's moving room shuttle for that sweet A/C. Not everyone lives in a perfect, unchanging climate. People like cars because of their utility, including the climate control that you only get because it's a "moving room."
  - Eric_WVGG 8y ago
    You would've enjoyed being on a bike. Breeze == cooling. I bicycled in Austin, TX for a whole summer and loved every minute of it.
lugg 8y ago
If you dare to venture outside the US you might come across the answer: https://www.google.ca/search?q=mumbai+scooter+traffic https://www.google.ca/search?q=mumbai+scooter+traffic (switch image) Roughly 5x the fuel efficiency doesn't hurt either.
- dhruvarora013 8y ago
  The scooters in Mumbai are very different from the scooters being introduced in the US. Other than sharing the name and being a two wheel vehicle, they have very little in common. The scooters in Mumbai and most of South Asia are gas powered, have seats, can support more than a single individual as well as provide small storage spaces. They also have significantly higher speeds and ranges (products of their gas engine vs rechargeable electric battery) The US scooters are larger battery powered version of scooters that kids mostly use. This of course in no way reduces their functionality - they’re simply different from the South Asian scooter.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    cough cough Italian mate and a nice murdered out Vespa GTS Notte is what I might end up with for my next commute - not some kids toy
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    In usual British usage of English, it's previously been easy to infer what type of scooter was meant simply from the age of the user. Otherwise, we call them a kick scooter and a motor scooter.
joeblau 8y ago
I was at WWDC last week chatting with a few folks about this (San Jose had tons of Bird and Lime scooters all over the place). One of the thing that these scooter companies (and deckles bikes) are doing is canalizing short trips. There were a few times when I would have taken an Uber from one place to another, but because the scooters had effectively 0 wait time and were 1/4th the price to cover the same distance in the same time, I opted for the scooters.

NullPrefix 8y ago

All the eggs in one basket.

ceejayoz 8y ago

You-drive cars haven't replaced you-drive scooters. Why would self-drive cars replace them? Sometimes you want to be out in the fresh air, they're cheaper than a car to rent/maintain, and they can get places cars can't.

aboodman 8y ago

1/ I think people assume that self-driving cars will "succeed" in a binary sense. I do not think that is how it plays out. I think there is a long, slow process of self-driving cars working a little better in a little more places. In busy, urban centers, self-driving cars are going to be a long time coming. 2/ No matter how self-driving the car, in busy environments, scooters are going to get you from a) to b) faster.

joejerryronnie 8y ago
You are correct, sir! Re: the non-binary, long slog to some type of self driving vehicle - I think we're already starting to see this realization sink in with the actual engineers, leaders, and investors in this space.

hunter23 8y ago

do you really want to wait for a self driving uber for a 0.4 commute through traffic clogged streets during rush hour? Cars aren't one size fit all solutions for all your transportation; the point of the scooters are to serve as last mile transport.

inostia 8y ago
Are people really that lazy that they can't ride bicycles anymore?
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  The closer your transportation form factor is to that of vehicles that we expect to be registered, insured, and not operated in a completely stupid manner the more rules you have to follow. Scooters are held to a lower standard than electric scooters which are held to a lower standard than bikes which are held to a lower standard than (fully) electric bikes which are held to a lower standard than bikes with a Chinese 2-stroke kit which are held to a lower standard than 50cc commercial mopeds which are held to a lower standard than larger commercial moped which are held to a lower standard than motorcycles and cars. The boundaries between classes are fuzzy and there's a lot of variability in expectations and enforcement but generally speaking the more rules you have to follow the less convenient. You can't park a motorcycle in a bike rack (well you can but you'll have to make an involuntary contribution to local government if you do so) but nobody will care if you park a moped in a bike rack. You can't blow red lights and stops in a moped but most people won't care if you do it on a bike. It's generally not considered polite to ride a bike on the sidewalks but you can get away with an electric scooter most of the time. The trade off of being able to get away with ignoring more rules is that the smaller form factors can't travel as far or as fast.
gamblor956 8y ago
People can't just walk the 4 blocks? It would take less time than waiting for an Uber, self-driving or not.

Eric_WVGG 8y ago

Lots of folks think self-driving cars are just replacing one problem with another. (A car, after all, is a really a moving room; but we don't want to move rooms, we want to move people.) http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/05/technology/bikes-disrupt-cars/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/05/technology/bikes-disrupt-car...

jgh 8y ago
Although electric scooters aren't a great replacement for self-driving cars in a lot of places that aren't California.
- woolvalley 8y ago
  You can bike in london and seattle too. Even in snowy canada.
  - jgh 8y ago
    Bikes have bigger wheels than scooters.. Try an electric scooter in a few inches of slush ;)
nathanaldensr 8y ago
I walked 1/4 of a mile from work to my hotel room today. In Houston. In 95 degree, extremely humid air. In direct sunlight. I knew I should've called the hotel's moving room shuttle for that sweet A/C. Not everyone lives in a perfect, unchanging climate. People like cars because of their utility, including the climate control that you only get because it's a "moving room."
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  You would've enjoyed being on a bike. Breeze == cooling. I bicycled in Austin, TX for a whole summer and loved every minute of it.

lugg 8y ago

If you dare to venture outside the US you might come across the answer: https://www.google.ca/search?q=mumbai+scooter+traffic https://www.google.ca/search?q=mumbai+scooter+traffic (switch image) Roughly 5x the fuel efficiency doesn't hurt either.

dhruvarora013 8y ago
The scooters in Mumbai are very different from the scooters being introduced in the US. Other than sharing the name and being a two wheel vehicle, they have very little in common. The scooters in Mumbai and most of South Asia are gas powered, have seats, can support more than a single individual as well as provide small storage spaces. They also have significantly higher speeds and ranges (products of their gas engine vs rechargeable electric battery) The US scooters are larger battery powered version of scooters that kids mostly use. This of course in no way reduces their functionality - they’re simply different from the South Asian scooter.
- walshemj 8y ago
  cough cough Italian mate and a nice murdered out Vespa GTS Notte is what I might end up with for my next commute - not some kids toy
- Symbiote 8y ago
  In usual British usage of English, it's previously been easy to infer what type of scooter was meant simply from the age of the user. Otherwise, we call them a kick scooter and a motor scooter.

joeblau 8y ago

I was at WWDC last week chatting with a few folks about this (San Jose had tons of Bird and Lime scooters all over the place). One of the thing that these scooter companies (and deckles bikes) are doing is canalizing short trips. There were a few times when I would have taken an Uber from one place to another, but because the scooters had effectively 0 wait time and were 1/4th the price to cover the same distance in the same time, I opted for the scooters.