5 ms·

I've been trying the opposite lately -- a high carb diet. I've mostly been modeling my eating style after Dr. McDougall's "Starch Solution" plan. He basically b

I've been trying the opposite lately -- a high carb diet. I've mostly been modeling my eating style after Dr. McDougall's "Starch Solution" plan. He basically believes that humans are designed to eat starchy foods (potatoes, whole grains, etc), and that fats are bad (healthy fats -- like from avocados -- aren't necessarily unhealthy, but aren't great if you are trying to lose weight). So one of the core tenets of this plan is to keep fat and protein very low, and roughly an 80/10/10 percentage of carbs/protein/fat, which means cooking without oils, butter, etc. The staple of my diet is potatoes. I eat potatoes nearly every day, and I eat a lot of them. My favorite way is to slice them up into wedges, add some spices, bake them, and then dip them in mustard. I also eat lots of rice, beans, oatmeal, bread, occasionally something like cheerios for a snack, etc. The beauty of this plan is that if you stick to resistant starches, and keep fat low, you don't need to count calories. You will likely feel full before you will overeat calories. I'm down about 15 pounds since starting in February (6 ft tall, down from 195 to 180ish), and I've got the most ab definition I've ever had from JUST a diet (I'm barely doing any cardio right now). But more importantly, I feel really good. Anyway, this is not to undermine a ketogenic diet. I think both are effective ways to feel good and look good... either eating low enough carbs that your body burns fat (Keto), or eating low enough fat that your body isn't storing any. I just enjoy experimenting with different ways of eating, and this one happens to be working great for me right now.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
I hope you'll update this post in a few weeks / months. It sounds very counter-intuitive based on prevailing wisdom. It might also be a good idea to have your physician check your blood glucose levels, other markers of pre-diabetes, and liver-function enzymes.
- barleymash 8y ago
  Totally, I actually had a physical scheduled for last week, before realizing I scheduled it for a date I was going to be out of town. So unfortunately I had to reschedule for August. But anyway, there is a decent amount of people who are following this plan, and if you are interested, you can find a lot of anecdotal experiences (including people reporting on their blood testing, etc) by googling "Starch Solution" or "Dr McDougall Starch Solution". There is also an active Facebook group. There is a book called "The Starch Solution" which I haven't read yet, nor have I done a whole of reading of research studies yet. But, I do know that McDougall and some of his colleagues believe that diabetes is actually caused by higher fat intake, and that this plan has been used by lots of people to cure their diabetes. Sounds so counterintuitive, and like I said, I haven't read/understood the science behind that claim yet. Edit: here is a resource where Dr. McDougall explains his stance on diabetes and blood glucose. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/diabetes.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/diabetes.htm
  - turc1656 8y ago
    This sounds dangerous. I am not on this diet and don't know anything about it but I second the recommendation to closely monitor your blood sugar levels because the science on that is clear. While I do the opposite (high fat low carb), I still monitor my blood sugar anyway, just for good measure (because I have too many people close to me with diabetes). If you are interested, here is the test kit I have: https://www.amazon.com/TrueMetrix-Monitoring-Glucose-System-Technology/dp/B01GU3SKZM/ref=sr_1_20_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832774&sr=8-20&keywords=true+metrix https://www.amazon.com/TrueMetrix-Monitoring-Glucose-System-... also available here, cheaper, as an add-on item: https://www.amazon.com/McKesson-06-RE4051-43-Metrix-Monitoring-Glucose/dp/B06XD9X5VK/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832774&sr=8-21&keywords=true+metrix https://www.amazon.com/McKesson-06-RE4051-43-Metrix-Monitori... And here are the lancets and test strips that go with it (in bulk): https://www.amazon.com/Metrix-Monitoring-Blood-Glucose-Strips/dp/B01LW1A51V/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832889&sr=8-6&keywords=true+metrix+blood+glucose+test+strips https://www.amazon.com/Metrix-Monitoring-Blood-Glucose-Strip... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IAI2XI0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IAI2XI0/ref=oh_aui_sear... If you decide to monitor using this, you should check your waking blood sugar and it should be <100, ideally below 90. Your pre-meal should be 80-100, 45-60 minutes after a meal has the highest level usually and that should ideally not cross 140. <120 is great. 120-180 is acceptable. >180 is problematic. 200+ is pre-diabetes. 2 hours after a meal it should definitely be <140 or else that's pre-diabetes as well. Better to be <120 or completely back to our baseline of 80-100. Regarding the high carb concept - this seems to go directly against our genetics. The human genome was basically "finalized" in its current form at a time when we had no large sources of carbohydrates because we couldn't cultivate anything like rice and potatoes. So our diet at the time consisted primarily of foods that are high fat and moderate protein, as well as greens and vegetables. One thing to note about high fat diets is that they should be high in natural, saturated fats like animal fats and nuts, not the garbage oils like vegetable and canola oil, which a lot of people and businesses drench their foods in.
    - barleymash 8y ago
      Thanks for the helpful breakdown. I might have to give the blood sugar monitoring a shot. Just curious, in what way were you thinking it would be dangerous? I'm trying to find some good scholarly research articles, but I'm not sure what I should be searching for. I think kind of the "common knowledge" perspective is that high carb causes obesity and diabetes. But I'm wondering if there are other dangers beyond those that you might be referring to. In regards to obesity and diabetes, I think a lot of researchers are starting to doubt those claims. Here is an article from the American Diabetes Association that concluded that the participants of the study (all of whom had diabetes) responded well to higher carb diets: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/1/2/77 http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/1/2/77 Also, there are two notable cultures/groups of people--the Okinawans and the Adventists--that eat high carb, low fat, low protein, and both of which have some of the best longevity rates and highest rates of centenarians. Obviously those types of statistics are really hard to determine causation, but I thought that was worth mentioning that they at least don't have high rates of obesity and diabetes like you'd maybe expect.
OldSchoolJohnny 8y ago
Wow, you're really "zagging" when science is "zigging", interesting to hear how that turns out for you, please keep us updated. I personally have gone from what you describe many years ago to paleo, then to keto and now to complete carnivory. Each step I feel better and shed more weight, think more clearly and have more energy. However modern science is also positing that there may be people who thrive on what would be terrible for other people due to genetic or microbiome differences so I'm curious how it turns out for you.
- Jommi 8y ago
  complete...carnivory?
- barleymash 8y ago
  That last sentence is an interesting point. The reason I stumbled onto this plan in the first place, is that I've had years of digestive discomfort, and realized that my system seems to handle starchy foods better. So I did some research on that, and learned that starchy foods are often the easiest for your body to digest and process.
glastra 8y ago
> low enough fat that your body isn't storing any Dietary fat is rarely stored. It is mostly either burnt (metabolic upregulation) or excreted. Excess glucose in the blood, however, is stored as fat, through a process known as de novo lipogenesis.
- simonebrunozzi 8y ago
  "de novo lipogenesis" in Latin literally means: "generating fat from new" - funny how knowing some Latin from school is always a bit helpful in understanding or remembering things like this one.
- barleymash 8y ago
  Right. My limited understanding of this--and keep in mind I'm just regurgitating what I've read from those who support this way of eating--is that novo lipogenesis is a very inefficient process, and that you'd have to overeat a significant amount of _simple_ sugars for basically months to store even just a pound of body fat. I think the idea with this eating plan is, if you are keeping fat low, you will fill up on starchy foods long before you will eat enough calories/carbs to cause novo lipogenesis. Definitely open to hearing counterpoints here... trying to learn about this stuff is overwhelming because it seems like you can find material, even scholarly research, to support any nutrition plan.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
Dolores12 8y ago
Potato has very high glycemic index, consume with care.
grok2 8y ago
What's your approximate age (or age range)?
- barleymash 8y ago
  early 30s

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

I hope you'll update this post in a few weeks / months. It sounds very counter-intuitive based on prevailing wisdom. It might also be a good idea to have your physician check your blood glucose levels, other markers of pre-diabetes, and liver-function enzymes.

barleymash 8y ago
Totally, I actually had a physical scheduled for last week, before realizing I scheduled it for a date I was going to be out of town. So unfortunately I had to reschedule for August. But anyway, there is a decent amount of people who are following this plan, and if you are interested, you can find a lot of anecdotal experiences (including people reporting on their blood testing, etc) by googling "Starch Solution" or "Dr McDougall Starch Solution". There is also an active Facebook group. There is a book called "The Starch Solution" which I haven't read yet, nor have I done a whole of reading of research studies yet. But, I do know that McDougall and some of his colleagues believe that diabetes is actually caused by higher fat intake, and that this plan has been used by lots of people to cure their diabetes. Sounds so counterintuitive, and like I said, I haven't read/understood the science behind that claim yet. Edit: here is a resource where Dr. McDougall explains his stance on diabetes and blood glucose. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/diabetes.htm https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/diabetes.htm
- turc1656 8y ago
  This sounds dangerous. I am not on this diet and don't know anything about it but I second the recommendation to closely monitor your blood sugar levels because the science on that is clear. While I do the opposite (high fat low carb), I still monitor my blood sugar anyway, just for good measure (because I have too many people close to me with diabetes). If you are interested, here is the test kit I have: https://www.amazon.com/TrueMetrix-Monitoring-Glucose-System-Technology/dp/B01GU3SKZM/ref=sr_1_20_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832774&sr=8-20&keywords=true+metrix https://www.amazon.com/TrueMetrix-Monitoring-Glucose-System-... also available here, cheaper, as an add-on item: https://www.amazon.com/McKesson-06-RE4051-43-Metrix-Monitoring-Glucose/dp/B06XD9X5VK/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832774&sr=8-21&keywords=true+metrix https://www.amazon.com/McKesson-06-RE4051-43-Metrix-Monitori... And here are the lancets and test strips that go with it (in bulk): https://www.amazon.com/Metrix-Monitoring-Blood-Glucose-Strips/dp/B01LW1A51V/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528832889&sr=8-6&keywords=true+metrix+blood+glucose+test+strips https://www.amazon.com/Metrix-Monitoring-Blood-Glucose-Strip... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IAI2XI0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IAI2XI0/ref=oh_aui_sear... If you decide to monitor using this, you should check your waking blood sugar and it should be <100, ideally below 90. Your pre-meal should be 80-100, 45-60 minutes after a meal has the highest level usually and that should ideally not cross 140. <120 is great. 120-180 is acceptable. >180 is problematic. 200+ is pre-diabetes. 2 hours after a meal it should definitely be <140 or else that's pre-diabetes as well. Better to be <120 or completely back to our baseline of 80-100. Regarding the high carb concept - this seems to go directly against our genetics. The human genome was basically "finalized" in its current form at a time when we had no large sources of carbohydrates because we couldn't cultivate anything like rice and potatoes. So our diet at the time consisted primarily of foods that are high fat and moderate protein, as well as greens and vegetables. One thing to note about high fat diets is that they should be high in natural, saturated fats like animal fats and nuts, not the garbage oils like vegetable and canola oil, which a lot of people and businesses drench their foods in.
  - barleymash 8y ago
    Thanks for the helpful breakdown. I might have to give the blood sugar monitoring a shot. Just curious, in what way were you thinking it would be dangerous? I'm trying to find some good scholarly research articles, but I'm not sure what I should be searching for. I think kind of the "common knowledge" perspective is that high carb causes obesity and diabetes. But I'm wondering if there are other dangers beyond those that you might be referring to. In regards to obesity and diabetes, I think a lot of researchers are starting to doubt those claims. Here is an article from the American Diabetes Association that concluded that the participants of the study (all of whom had diabetes) responded well to higher carb diets: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/1/2/77 http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/1/2/77 Also, there are two notable cultures/groups of people--the Okinawans and the Adventists--that eat high carb, low fat, low protein, and both of which have some of the best longevity rates and highest rates of centenarians. Obviously those types of statistics are really hard to determine causation, but I thought that was worth mentioning that they at least don't have high rates of obesity and diabetes like you'd maybe expect.

OldSchoolJohnny 8y ago

Wow, you're really "zagging" when science is "zigging", interesting to hear how that turns out for you, please keep us updated. I personally have gone from what you describe many years ago to paleo, then to keto and now to complete carnivory. Each step I feel better and shed more weight, think more clearly and have more energy. However modern science is also positing that there may be people who thrive on what would be terrible for other people due to genetic or microbiome differences so I'm curious how it turns out for you.

Jommi 8y ago
complete...carnivory?
barleymash 8y ago
That last sentence is an interesting point. The reason I stumbled onto this plan in the first place, is that I've had years of digestive discomfort, and realized that my system seems to handle starchy foods better. So I did some research on that, and learned that starchy foods are often the easiest for your body to digest and process.

glastra 8y ago

> low enough fat that your body isn't storing any Dietary fat is rarely stored. It is mostly either burnt (metabolic upregulation) or excreted. Excess glucose in the blood, however, is stored as fat, through a process known as de novo lipogenesis.

simonebrunozzi 8y ago
"de novo lipogenesis" in Latin literally means: "generating fat from new" - funny how knowing some Latin from school is always a bit helpful in understanding or remembering things like this one.
barleymash 8y ago
Right. My limited understanding of this--and keep in mind I'm just regurgitating what I've read from those who support this way of eating--is that novo lipogenesis is a very inefficient process, and that you'd have to overeat a significant amount of _simple_ sugars for basically months to store even just a pound of body fat. I think the idea with this eating plan is, if you are keeping fat low, you will fill up on starchy foods long before you will eat enough calories/carbs to cause novo lipogenesis. Definitely open to hearing counterpoints here... trying to learn about this stuff is overwhelming because it seems like you can find material, even scholarly research, to support any nutrition plan.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Dolores12 8y ago

Potato has very high glycemic index, consume with care.

grok2 8y ago

What's your approximate age (or age range)?

barleymash 8y ago
early 30s