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> When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold You're not the product being sold - data about you is the product being sold. You are much more

> When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold You're not the product being sold - data about you is the product being sold. You are much more than that data. I find it either dishonest or extremely cynical to suggest that data about people is equivalent with people themselves.

Rjevski 8y ago
The end goal is to “sell” the user to some advertiser in hopes that the user is stupid/desperate enough to buy the advertised garbage. Data is just the method used to achieve that goal - if it wasn’t for that then data by itself would be worthless.
- kruczek 8y ago
  Would you say that you are a product, when you watch a trailer for a movie? According to your definition, the end goal of a trailer also is to "sell" the user to the film studio in hopes that the user will buy the ticket. People use the "you're the product" quote strictly in reference to targeted ads, not in reference to any activity which has the end goal of convincing the user to make a purchase. That means it is not about the end goal at all - it is about our data which is sold without our permission. The data is the product they sell.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    If I looked up the trailer myself? No, because I already had interest in the movie and wanted to see more to decide if it's worth buying. If I didn't ask for anything and an app/website suddenly shows me the trailer? Absolutely - that app/website is selling my attention as the product, and my middle finger suddenly rises as I close the tab or tweak my ad blocker to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    - kruczek 8y ago
      Well, then it looks like our definitions of a product differ. However, I believe this shows how the "you're the product" phrase diverts attention - now you're talking about ads in general, but that's not what people rally against. The problem is about collecting and selling our personal data without our agreement and knowledge, not about showing you some random popup. The latter, as you mentioned, can be easily blocked and won't cost you more than a few seconds of your attention, but loss of control over your data may have far more serious effects (e.g. if that data ends up in insurance companies, who suddenly decide that your data profile matches some high risk group of people).
deleted 8y ago
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rdiddly 8y ago
The distinction you're making is not particularly interesting. Of course they don't literally sell people.
- kruczek 8y ago
  Then why call it as such? Yes, I know it is a catchy phrase which invokes emotional response, but I think it diverts attention from the core of the problem.
  - rdiddly 8y ago
    Well maybe I'm not appreciating the core of the problem. What is it, as you see it?
    - kruczek 8y ago
      The core of the problem obviously is the fact of sharing our data without our permission and/or knowledge. The issue I have with that phrase is that it is basically an appeal to emotion; it doesn't focus on dialogue about why such unrestricted sharing of data is bad and what can be done about it, but rather it encourages feeling of helplessness ("I'm a product, owned and sold by corporations").
      - rdiddly 8y ago
        I see what you're saying. I guess it's an attempt to provoke outrage, but like many other such tactics it can just as easily lead to apathy, if it's not accompanied by actionable information for example.

Rjevski 8y ago

The end goal is to “sell” the user to some advertiser in hopes that the user is stupid/desperate enough to buy the advertised garbage. Data is just the method used to achieve that goal - if it wasn’t for that then data by itself would be worthless.

kruczek 8y ago
Would you say that you are a product, when you watch a trailer for a movie? According to your definition, the end goal of a trailer also is to "sell" the user to the film studio in hopes that the user will buy the ticket. People use the "you're the product" quote strictly in reference to targeted ads, not in reference to any activity which has the end goal of convincing the user to make a purchase. That means it is not about the end goal at all - it is about our data which is sold without our permission. The data is the product they sell.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  If I looked up the trailer myself? No, because I already had interest in the movie and wanted to see more to decide if it's worth buying. If I didn't ask for anything and an app/website suddenly shows me the trailer? Absolutely - that app/website is selling my attention as the product, and my middle finger suddenly rises as I close the tab or tweak my ad blocker to make sure it doesn't happen again.
  - kruczek 8y ago
    Well, then it looks like our definitions of a product differ. However, I believe this shows how the "you're the product" phrase diverts attention - now you're talking about ads in general, but that's not what people rally against. The problem is about collecting and selling our personal data without our agreement and knowledge, not about showing you some random popup. The latter, as you mentioned, can be easily blocked and won't cost you more than a few seconds of your attention, but loss of control over your data may have far more serious effects (e.g. if that data ends up in insurance companies, who suddenly decide that your data profile matches some high risk group of people).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

rdiddly 8y ago

The distinction you're making is not particularly interesting. Of course they don't literally sell people.

kruczek 8y ago
Then why call it as such? Yes, I know it is a catchy phrase which invokes emotional response, but I think it diverts attention from the core of the problem.
- rdiddly 8y ago
  Well maybe I'm not appreciating the core of the problem. What is it, as you see it?
  - kruczek 8y ago
    The core of the problem obviously is the fact of sharing our data without our permission and/or knowledge. The issue I have with that phrase is that it is basically an appeal to emotion; it doesn't focus on dialogue about why such unrestricted sharing of data is bad and what can be done about it, but rather it encourages feeling of helplessness ("I'm a product, owned and sold by corporations").
    - rdiddly 8y ago
      I see what you're saying. I guess it's an attempt to provoke outrage, but like many other such tactics it can just as easily lead to apathy, if it's not accompanied by actionable information for example.