5 ms·

Your Menstrual App Is Probably Selling Data About Your Body

28 points by andrewxhill 8y ago

Rjevski 8y ago
When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold - no surprise here. I’m also curious as to why people insist on using shady third-party apps for this while their phone’s OS already comes with a perfectly functional Health app.
- adwww 8y ago
  There are a number of apps that go a lot further than this - aiming to either tell you the best possible time to concieve, or alternatively the opposite claiming to be a very effective contraceptive, just by tracking the days you shouldn't have sex. I'm guessing Apple and other big manufacturers wouldn't want the PR associated with some unplanned pregnancies!
  - olliej 8y ago
    Recommending times to avoid getting pregnant is essentially just the rythm method isn’t it? That has been shown to not work :-/ That said bizarre squeamishness of america about anything related to periods I’m sure there are issues with just having UI for such things :-/
    - adwww 8y ago
      Of old, yes - but I think the newer round of these are meant to go much further - eg. including a thermometer to measure body temperatures, etc. I think it was this article I remember reading a while ago that went into some of them... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/15/can-apps-provide-effective-birth-control-contraception-sexual-freedom https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/15/can-apps-pro...
- kruczek 8y ago
  > When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold You're not the product being sold - data about you is the product being sold. You are much more than that data. I find it either dishonest or extremely cynical to suggest that data about people is equivalent with people themselves.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    The end goal is to “sell” the user to some advertiser in hopes that the user is stupid/desperate enough to buy the advertised garbage. Data is just the method used to achieve that goal - if it wasn’t for that then data by itself would be worthless.
    - kruczek 8y ago
      Would you say that you are a product, when you watch a trailer for a movie? According to your definition, the end goal of a trailer also is to "sell" the user to the film studio in hopes that the user will buy the ticket. People use the "you're the product" quote strictly in reference to targeted ads, not in reference to any activity which has the end goal of convincing the user to make a purchase. That means it is not about the end goal at all - it is about our data which is sold without our permission. The data is the product they sell.
      - Rjevski 8y ago
        If I looked up the trailer myself? No, because I already had interest in the movie and wanted to see more to decide if it's worth buying. If I didn't ask for anything and an app/website suddenly shows me the trailer? Absolutely - that app/website is selling my attention as the product, and my middle finger suddenly rises as I close the tab or tweak my ad blocker to make sure it doesn't happen again.
        kruczek 8y ago
        Well, then it looks like our definitions of a product differ. However, I believe this shows how the "you're the product" phrase diverts attention - now you're talking about ads in general, but that's not what people rally against. The problem is about collecting and selling our personal data without our agreement and knowledge, not about showing you some random popup. The latter, as you mentioned, can be easily blocked and won't cost you more than a few seconds of your attention, but loss of control over your data may have far more serious effects (e.g. if that data ends up in insurance companies, who suddenly decide that your data profile matches some high risk group of people).
- jjeaff 8y ago
  As everyone here knows, this is repeated frequently here. But I think it's important to note that even if you are paying for something. Most likely, you are also the product. Paying for a service and getting your data sold are not mutually exclusive. Many (most?) companies that you pay are also making additional money by selling your data.

28 points by andrewxhill 8y ago

When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold - no surprise here. I’m also curious as to why people insist on using shady third-party apps for this while their phone’s OS already comes with a perfectly functional Health app.

adwww 8y ago
There are a number of apps that go a lot further than this - aiming to either tell you the best possible time to concieve, or alternatively the opposite claiming to be a very effective contraceptive, just by tracking the days you shouldn't have sex. I'm guessing Apple and other big manufacturers wouldn't want the PR associated with some unplanned pregnancies!
- olliej 8y ago
  Recommending times to avoid getting pregnant is essentially just the rythm method isn’t it? That has been shown to not work :-/ That said bizarre squeamishness of america about anything related to periods I’m sure there are issues with just having UI for such things :-/
  - adwww 8y ago
    Of old, yes - but I think the newer round of these are meant to go much further - eg. including a thermometer to measure body temperatures, etc. I think it was this article I remember reading a while ago that went into some of them... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/15/can-apps-provide-effective-birth-control-contraception-sexual-freedom https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/15/can-apps-pro...
kruczek 8y ago
> When you’re not paying for it, you’re the product being sold You're not the product being sold - data about you is the product being sold. You are much more than that data. I find it either dishonest or extremely cynical to suggest that data about people is equivalent with people themselves.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  The end goal is to “sell” the user to some advertiser in hopes that the user is stupid/desperate enough to buy the advertised garbage. Data is just the method used to achieve that goal - if it wasn’t for that then data by itself would be worthless.
  - kruczek 8y ago
    Would you say that you are a product, when you watch a trailer for a movie? According to your definition, the end goal of a trailer also is to "sell" the user to the film studio in hopes that the user will buy the ticket. People use the "you're the product" quote strictly in reference to targeted ads, not in reference to any activity which has the end goal of convincing the user to make a purchase. That means it is not about the end goal at all - it is about our data which is sold without our permission. The data is the product they sell.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      If I looked up the trailer myself? No, because I already had interest in the movie and wanted to see more to decide if it's worth buying. If I didn't ask for anything and an app/website suddenly shows me the trailer? Absolutely - that app/website is selling my attention as the product, and my middle finger suddenly rises as I close the tab or tweak my ad blocker to make sure it doesn't happen again.
      - kruczek 8y ago
        Well, then it looks like our definitions of a product differ. However, I believe this shows how the "you're the product" phrase diverts attention - now you're talking about ads in general, but that's not what people rally against. The problem is about collecting and selling our personal data without our agreement and knowledge, not about showing you some random popup. The latter, as you mentioned, can be easily blocked and won't cost you more than a few seconds of your attention, but loss of control over your data may have far more serious effects (e.g. if that data ends up in insurance companies, who suddenly decide that your data profile matches some high risk group of people).
jjeaff 8y ago
As everyone here knows, this is repeated frequently here. But I think it's important to note that even if you are paying for something. Most likely, you are also the product. Paying for a service and getting your data sold are not mutually exclusive. Many (most?) companies that you pay are also making additional money by selling your data.