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I think this is a better exercise. I stole it from Seneca. Look at the back of your wrists: see those fragile greenish-blue veins? What if tomorrow - while th

I think this is a better exercise. I stole it from Seneca. Look at the back of your wrists: see those fragile greenish-blue veins? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you trip and fall, and a particularly sharp rock on the ground or a shard of glass on the street cuts one of those thin exposed blue-green veins open?

throwawaymath 8y ago
What is the reaction you're "supposed" to get by thinking about that? I took a moment to think about it and I don't think I got it. My reaction was, "Well then I probably die", but I don't feel particularly different about the present. If that's the thing I'm supposed to feel then so be it, but I feel Seneca intended for some greater profundity, or he would dispense with the mental theatrics. What am I missing? Does it need to be more visceral?
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  This is the first time I've heard the quote, but I think it's to appreciate that life is short and could end at any time, and while bleeding out you'd realize that worrying about these long-term things was a waste of time.
  - ThePadawan 8y ago
    I fail to see that as highly positive though - with that attitude, I would stop exercising and invest all of my savings into cake and pizza. These things would make me happy each day, but miserable each month.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    In the more likely case that you don't die tomorrow worrying about long term things usually pays off.
    - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
      And what if you lose your fingers and can’t code anymore?
  - Draiken 8y ago
    That's not exactly the purpose Stoics do that AFAIK. One of the objectives is to appreciate what you have right now and stopping this urge that we have in today's society to always get more. If you stop and really think about how bad it would be to live without your eyesight, for example, you can appreciate even the smallest things we take for granted. It's not supposed to be a "carpe diem" thing.
    - posterboy 8y ago
      > carpo#Latin > Compare Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit”) and κείρω (keírō, “to cut off”), English harvest, sharp, shear. Carpe diem totally fits; You just have to consider that an optimum can be approached from two sides, ie the right time to harvest, neither too soon nor too late. In another sense it might mean the day is ripe, I guess. But it's not cape diem, not take the day away.
      - Draiken 8y ago
        I always see this expression being used as some kind of "live life to the fullest" context. Which is what I think is wrong. Never went after the etymology of it, interesting how it has nothing to do with "seize the day" as I originally thought.
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    That’s part of it, but mostly, it’s about thinking if the worst thing that can happen and how would you deal with it: do you bleed out peacefully or crying? We are always thinking nothing will happen to us, yet, we’ve all here have had problems, accidental or due to our own stupidity, that have already changed the course of our life for the worse. Seneca says it’s worth thinking about that every day to find peace of mind.
- posterboy 8y ago
  it's distraction, nothing more. By the way, I recently noticed my veins are not symmetric on both hands. I'm not sure what to think of that either.
  - tripzilch 8y ago
    It means that one of your hands is actually your twin brothers', whom you ate in the womb. Meditate on that for an hour every day :p edit: it's impossible to know which hand is yours.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  That life is absurd and fortune can bring death as easily as peace. It’s my fault for not putting more time into my comment; it’s more about finding a scenario that scares you: since I also have no fear of poverty or sickness thinking about that does little for me. An absurd death scares me so that’s ehy I used that, but if losing life doesn’t scare you, then maiming? Like you get hit by a self driving car and instead of losing your life, you lose both eyes, or both your arms, etc. You are also paralyzed now. Now it’s very hard to kill yourself. Maybe impossible. But if your mind is still at peace, then you are truly wise, and you’ve made good use of your time in the world. I would be a horrible and mean wretch if that calamity happened to me. I know I’m a mess, and I couldn’t face that future with any poise or grace.
Noumenon72 8y ago
From what I understand about suicide, no little crossways cut on those veins will ever kill you. You have to go up the arm and deep. Humans aren't that fragile really.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  And the ones you can see are veins, not arteries.
- dandellion 8y ago
  I've come up with an alternative version of the exercise that might work better: Look at your feet: see those little toes? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you get hit by a speeding 10 ton truck and you die instantly?
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    That’s good too, maybe make it a self driving car instead.
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  You don’t have to cut deep, just enough to make the blood gush. The story says a sharp object to distinguish that.
tripzilch 8y ago
I'm probably doing it wrong but the first thing I think of is "better do that on a busy street, hopefully there's someone that knows to bind off my wrist or something[0]" Do I need to imagine that I'll bleed out alone, with everyone walking past me as if I don't exist? Because 1. I don't like that exercise and 2. it mostly makes me consider to what extent I'm currently surrounding myself with people that dis-compassionate an whether I should move ... 3. does it matter that one of my wrists actually has a huge scar, that's grown with me from when I was 4 years old, jumped off a couch and smashed my tiny right wrist into a glass on the table? I managed to miss both my artery and my tendons, ... or I wouldn't be typing this :D
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  You’re not doing it wrong; perhaps you’re more worried about how others will treat you because you feel you’re lacking friendships? Most, if not all, would watch you bleed out: its the bystander effect. See the Kitty Genovese murder. Are you bothered by this? You could have died. I fell and hit a glass table too and now I have a scar right next to my eye, less than a finger width away. I could have lost the eye but I don’t like to think about it either. There’s a lot of stories where I could have been maimed, and I do have injuries that have left me weaker.

throwawaymath 8y ago

What is the reaction you're "supposed" to get by thinking about that? I took a moment to think about it and I don't think I got it. My reaction was, "Well then I probably die", but I don't feel particularly different about the present. If that's the thing I'm supposed to feel then so be it, but I feel Seneca intended for some greater profundity, or he would dispense with the mental theatrics. What am I missing? Does it need to be more visceral?

PascLeRasc 8y ago
This is the first time I've heard the quote, but I think it's to appreciate that life is short and could end at any time, and while bleeding out you'd realize that worrying about these long-term things was a waste of time.
- ThePadawan 8y ago
  I fail to see that as highly positive though - with that attitude, I would stop exercising and invest all of my savings into cake and pizza. These things would make me happy each day, but miserable each month.
- adrianN 8y ago
  In the more likely case that you don't die tomorrow worrying about long term things usually pays off.
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    And what if you lose your fingers and can’t code anymore?
- Draiken 8y ago
  That's not exactly the purpose Stoics do that AFAIK. One of the objectives is to appreciate what you have right now and stopping this urge that we have in today's society to always get more. If you stop and really think about how bad it would be to live without your eyesight, for example, you can appreciate even the smallest things we take for granted. It's not supposed to be a "carpe diem" thing.
  - posterboy 8y ago
    > carpo#Latin > Compare Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit”) and κείρω (keírō, “to cut off”), English harvest, sharp, shear. Carpe diem totally fits; You just have to consider that an optimum can be approached from two sides, ie the right time to harvest, neither too soon nor too late. In another sense it might mean the day is ripe, I guess. But it's not cape diem, not take the day away.
    - Draiken 8y ago
      I always see this expression being used as some kind of "live life to the fullest" context. Which is what I think is wrong. Never went after the etymology of it, interesting how it has nothing to do with "seize the day" as I originally thought.
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  That’s part of it, but mostly, it’s about thinking if the worst thing that can happen and how would you deal with it: do you bleed out peacefully or crying? We are always thinking nothing will happen to us, yet, we’ve all here have had problems, accidental or due to our own stupidity, that have already changed the course of our life for the worse. Seneca says it’s worth thinking about that every day to find peace of mind.
posterboy 8y ago
it's distraction, nothing more. By the way, I recently noticed my veins are not symmetric on both hands. I'm not sure what to think of that either.
- tripzilch 8y ago
  It means that one of your hands is actually your twin brothers', whom you ate in the womb. Meditate on that for an hour every day :p edit: it's impossible to know which hand is yours.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
That life is absurd and fortune can bring death as easily as peace. It’s my fault for not putting more time into my comment; it’s more about finding a scenario that scares you: since I also have no fear of poverty or sickness thinking about that does little for me. An absurd death scares me so that’s ehy I used that, but if losing life doesn’t scare you, then maiming? Like you get hit by a self driving car and instead of losing your life, you lose both eyes, or both your arms, etc. You are also paralyzed now. Now it’s very hard to kill yourself. Maybe impossible. But if your mind is still at peace, then you are truly wise, and you’ve made good use of your time in the world. I would be a horrible and mean wretch if that calamity happened to me. I know I’m a mess, and I couldn’t face that future with any poise or grace.

Noumenon72 8y ago

From what I understand about suicide, no little crossways cut on those veins will ever kill you. You have to go up the arm and deep. Humans aren't that fragile really.

MaxBarraclough 8y ago
And the ones you can see are veins, not arteries.
dandellion 8y ago
I've come up with an alternative version of the exercise that might work better: Look at your feet: see those little toes? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you get hit by a speeding 10 ton truck and you die instantly?
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  That’s good too, maybe make it a self driving car instead.
ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
You don’t have to cut deep, just enough to make the blood gush. The story says a sharp object to distinguish that.

tripzilch 8y ago

I'm probably doing it wrong but the first thing I think of is "better do that on a busy street, hopefully there's someone that knows to bind off my wrist or something[0]" Do I need to imagine that I'll bleed out alone, with everyone walking past me as if I don't exist? Because 1. I don't like that exercise and 2. it mostly makes me consider to what extent I'm currently surrounding myself with people that dis-compassionate an whether I should move ... 3. does it matter that one of my wrists actually has a huge scar, that's grown with me from when I was 4 years old, jumped off a couch and smashed my tiny right wrist into a glass on the table? I managed to miss both my artery and my tendons, ... or I wouldn't be typing this :D

ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
You’re not doing it wrong; perhaps you’re more worried about how others will treat you because you feel you’re lacking friendships? Most, if not all, would watch you bleed out: its the bystander effect. See the Kitty Genovese murder. Are you bothered by this? You could have died. I fell and hit a glass table too and now I have a scar right next to my eye, less than a finger width away. I could have lost the eye but I don’t like to think about it either. There’s a lot of stories where I could have been maimed, and I do have injuries that have left me weaker.