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Not GP, but I don't consider it harmful or whatever to ask why folks disagree with you if you don't understand why folks would disagree with you. Sure, none of

Not GP, but I don't consider it harmful or whatever to ask why folks disagree with you if you don't understand why folks would disagree with you. Sure, none of us owe them an explanation for voting a certain way, but maybe someone will come along and explain it, and they'll learn something new. I don't think the system is strictly "you're right" or "your're wrong" and providing any supporting explanation is discouraged.

pvg 8y ago
I don't consider it harmful It pretty much always devolves into pointless meta. If someone wanted to tell you how right or wrong you are, they'd reply to your comment. Sometimes, perfectly reasonable comments get downvoted. Sometimes, truly awful comments get upvoted. Sometimes people fatfinger the wrong button on their phones. Every poster and every thread is better off just living with it, not worrying about it too much and sticking to the quality of the conversation itself.
- staticautomatic 8y ago
  We are the quality of the conversation itself.
  - pvg 8y ago
    No.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Yea, we literally are, unless all other commentors on HN are bots...
      - pvg 8y ago
        No you literally aren't. You are you. The conversation is the conversation. Those are two distinct things. Nobody can ask you to be mindful of the quality of other people. It's trivial to just avoid interminable discussions about voting. The most telling thing about this is that nobody ever demands explanations for upvotes so it's obviously not because there's some real belief these explanations would make the conversation better. It's just that being downvoted feels bad. But really, at worst, you'd eat -4 points here or there. Best is to just put on your wizard hat and Epictetain stoic robe and move on. And this isn't merely a good idea - it's the law.
- khedoros1 8y ago
  Discussions about why comments are downvoted are useful to understand the group mentality of the site, and sometimes the post is just factually wrong, badly composed, or has another negative quality that would be similarly evaluated by multiple readers. Maybe the author mistyped something. If the only feedback is a bundle of downvotes, it makes sense to ask for more detail. The site is better off when contributors understand what comments the community considers valuable. Sometimes the meta-discussion even leads to a good, but downvoted, comment recovering.
  - pvg 8y ago
    Discussions about why comments are downvoted are useful Well, you'd have to convince not me but the moderators of the site of that. They're quite explicitly off-topic in the written guidelines. Have been for many years along with 'neither downvotes nor upvotes come with an explanation obligation'. And more generally, it's social interaction, not a compiler. Like most social interactions and for most people, it's not that hard for a newcomer, with a bit of participation, to sort out the context and written and unwritten norms, without constant and explicit error messages.
    - khedoros1 8y ago
      Or, I can just answer people's questions about their downvotes to the best of my ability. They're guidelines, in the sense of rules of thumb. There are plenty of times when they just don't make sense. In doing so, you're just taking the chance that a lot of people disagree with your reading of the situation. > And more generally, it's social interaction, not a compiler. You've never asked "What did I say wrong?" when someone reacted unexpectedly in a social interaction? No one owes you an explanation, but there are times when it's a reasonable question and shouldn't hurt to ask.
      - pvg 8y ago
        They're guidelines, in the sense of rules of thumb. That's really not how they're treated. Neither 'don't be a butthead' nor 'don't whine about votes' are serving suggestions. They're both enforced constantly, directly and indirectly. Without that, the site would be an unreadable cesspool. You've never asked "What did I say wrong?" when someone reacted unexpectedly in a social interaction? I don't present every stranger who bumped me on the bus and then gave me the stink eye as if I was the clumsy boor with a questionnaire aimed at establishing a more constructive basis for our ongoing relationship. I just frown and go back to staring at my phone. This is a far more taxing and awkward near-daily social interaction than a seemingly inexplicable downvote.

pvg 8y ago

I don't consider it harmful It pretty much always devolves into pointless meta. If someone wanted to tell you how right or wrong you are, they'd reply to your comment. Sometimes, perfectly reasonable comments get downvoted. Sometimes, truly awful comments get upvoted. Sometimes people fatfinger the wrong button on their phones. Every poster and every thread is better off just living with it, not worrying about it too much and sticking to the quality of the conversation itself.

staticautomatic 8y ago
We are the quality of the conversation itself.
- pvg 8y ago
  No.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Yea, we literally are, unless all other commentors on HN are bots...
    - pvg 8y ago
      No you literally aren't. You are you. The conversation is the conversation. Those are two distinct things. Nobody can ask you to be mindful of the quality of other people. It's trivial to just avoid interminable discussions about voting. The most telling thing about this is that nobody ever demands explanations for upvotes so it's obviously not because there's some real belief these explanations would make the conversation better. It's just that being downvoted feels bad. But really, at worst, you'd eat -4 points here or there. Best is to just put on your wizard hat and Epictetain stoic robe and move on. And this isn't merely a good idea - it's the law.
khedoros1 8y ago
Discussions about why comments are downvoted are useful to understand the group mentality of the site, and sometimes the post is just factually wrong, badly composed, or has another negative quality that would be similarly evaluated by multiple readers. Maybe the author mistyped something. If the only feedback is a bundle of downvotes, it makes sense to ask for more detail. The site is better off when contributors understand what comments the community considers valuable. Sometimes the meta-discussion even leads to a good, but downvoted, comment recovering.
- pvg 8y ago
  Discussions about why comments are downvoted are useful Well, you'd have to convince not me but the moderators of the site of that. They're quite explicitly off-topic in the written guidelines. Have been for many years along with 'neither downvotes nor upvotes come with an explanation obligation'. And more generally, it's social interaction, not a compiler. Like most social interactions and for most people, it's not that hard for a newcomer, with a bit of participation, to sort out the context and written and unwritten norms, without constant and explicit error messages.
  - khedoros1 8y ago
    Or, I can just answer people's questions about their downvotes to the best of my ability. They're guidelines, in the sense of rules of thumb. There are plenty of times when they just don't make sense. In doing so, you're just taking the chance that a lot of people disagree with your reading of the situation. > And more generally, it's social interaction, not a compiler. You've never asked "What did I say wrong?" when someone reacted unexpectedly in a social interaction? No one owes you an explanation, but there are times when it's a reasonable question and shouldn't hurt to ask.
    - pvg 8y ago
      They're guidelines, in the sense of rules of thumb. That's really not how they're treated. Neither 'don't be a butthead' nor 'don't whine about votes' are serving suggestions. They're both enforced constantly, directly and indirectly. Without that, the site would be an unreadable cesspool. You've never asked "What did I say wrong?" when someone reacted unexpectedly in a social interaction? I don't present every stranger who bumped me on the bus and then gave me the stink eye as if I was the clumsy boor with a questionnaire aimed at establishing a more constructive basis for our ongoing relationship. I just frown and go back to staring at my phone. This is a far more taxing and awkward near-daily social interaction than a seemingly inexplicable downvote.