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having been, for want of a better term, ‘highly miserable’ in the past, the entirety of this article comes across as insidiously toxic and detrimental to the me

having been, for want of a better term, ‘highly miserable’ in the past, the entirety of this article comes across as insidiously toxic and detrimental to the mental well-being of those who are suffering. there is a.. loosely similar CGP Grey video, which approaches the matter in a much more rational context [1] for anyone suffering, i emplore you to not read this and watch this instead; [1] - https://youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o https://youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o

jsmo 8y ago
This was a wonderfully witty and almost equally sarcastic take on happiness. Good guffaws guaranteed.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
Amen. I didn't watch your linked video, but I definitely agreed with your post. As someone who has also been highly miserable (aka clinically depressed) in the past, various sentiments along the line of "come on, life is great, why can't you appreciate it?" and "that's no so bad, suck it up" most definitely did NOT help me overcome my depression. Which makes me wonder: if the purpose of this post is to belittle "miserable" people, well I guess it succeeds, but then that seems a pretty miserable thing to do in the first place. If the purpose is to ironically remind folks that there are easy things you can do to not be miserable, I don't think it's doing it in a particularly effective way.
- creddit 8y ago
  Having been both clinically depressed and just generally negative and miserable, I think there's a large difference. This article addresses the latter of those two situations in a way that resonated pretty deeply with me. Clinical depression is drastically different and should be treated more as a disease than a state of mind. I don't believe this article comes across as suggesting its conclusions can treat clinical depression but rather are the symptoms of highly negative and miserable states of mind.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - unclebucknasty 8y ago
    Hard to distinguish, as clinical depression produces many of the maligned behaviors, making it reasonable to read this piece as an attack on those suffering. OTOH, there is a CBT angle here. That is, a depressed person may find relief in working to recognize and change the behaviors and thinking that supports those behaviors.
smogcutter 8y ago
Yeah, agreed. "Just stop thinking like that" is terrible advice for someone suffering depression (or etc). Especially with the added spice of "and also you're a jerk." I do think there's a good point here that these patterns are self-reinforcing, and that there can be a kind of counterintuitive pleasure in really getting down into the muck and living there. See also Notes from Underground. But the snide and aggressive tone here is really bizarre.
pjc50 8y ago
I think it depends on how you take it; some of cognitive behavioural therapy is about changing how you behave physically in order to achieve changes of your mood, or break you out of unhealthy mental habits.
swampers 8y ago
I similarly didn't appreciate this approach. It pillories those who think like this, whether that's within their control or not.
jasonszhao 8y ago
Thank you for the video. As someone who is still in school and struggles with emotion/time management/procrastination, I was particularly hit by "focus on goals that are after which you wish to achieve." People around me have pointed this out to me, but it was only until recently did I realize how serious it was. I think that my impulsive nature and addiction to novelty fuel this problem. Even browsing Hacker News is a manifestation of this. HN always has some cool idea that I could be studying or hacking on when I have free time. But I spend too much time thinking about possibilities than getting done what's right in front of me, because I'm addicted to novelty. I especially neglect school work, which isn't boring at all and rather fascinating and useful, and instead try to find weird things to explore. My huge queue on Pocket is one of many testaments to this. The result is poor, and I feel miserable and disappointed in myself. Of course, as the video touches upon, modern technology (social media, apps, even internet pornography) exploits humans' desire for novelty (though as previously explained, I think I'm far more vulnerable than average). The video helped me see the connection between my habit and this tendency.
- SZJX 8y ago
  The point is that you'll always have to ensure a chunk of time for your "main" activity and give it sustained efforts. Reading broadly and exploring a range of topics is always good and beneficial, but you need to limit your time on them. If you just spend your whole day reading various disparate newsletters and articles instead of focusing on one book, one particular area that you dive deep into, your career prospect, etc., it wouldn't work.
valdezm 8y ago
Yeah, I am disgusted in reading this, really sickens me. I have reached out to the author that I might be able to help her. This article really makes me want to create a counter-article, "The 14 True Identities of Joyful People"(I've exchanged Habits for True Identities, because it is an inherent worth that we all have and when known transforms us to choose Joy, this not being of works as is the case with habits).. Anyways, I suspect I may just write that article.
SZJX 8y ago
At least this can point out some of the cognitive traps that they might not be aware of. Also this might help people around them recognize their problems and then try to find them help. When the awareness of depression is still not high enough in the population, many of the problems can be hard to properly understand, describe and classify. At least I would say I can recognize some patterns both in my past self and also in several people I am familiar with much clearer after reading it. I don't think the author in any way wanted them to get "pilloried" and "feel bad". That's definitely not the intention.

jsmo 8y ago

This was a wonderfully witty and almost equally sarcastic take on happiness. Good guffaws guaranteed.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

Amen. I didn't watch your linked video, but I definitely agreed with your post. As someone who has also been highly miserable (aka clinically depressed) in the past, various sentiments along the line of "come on, life is great, why can't you appreciate it?" and "that's no so bad, suck it up" most definitely did NOT help me overcome my depression. Which makes me wonder: if the purpose of this post is to belittle "miserable" people, well I guess it succeeds, but then that seems a pretty miserable thing to do in the first place. If the purpose is to ironically remind folks that there are easy things you can do to not be miserable, I don't think it's doing it in a particularly effective way.

creddit 8y ago
Having been both clinically depressed and just generally negative and miserable, I think there's a large difference. This article addresses the latter of those two situations in a way that resonated pretty deeply with me. Clinical depression is drastically different and should be treated more as a disease than a state of mind. I don't believe this article comes across as suggesting its conclusions can treat clinical depression but rather are the symptoms of highly negative and miserable states of mind.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- unclebucknasty 8y ago
  Hard to distinguish, as clinical depression produces many of the maligned behaviors, making it reasonable to read this piece as an attack on those suffering. OTOH, there is a CBT angle here. That is, a depressed person may find relief in working to recognize and change the behaviors and thinking that supports those behaviors.

smogcutter 8y ago

Yeah, agreed. "Just stop thinking like that" is terrible advice for someone suffering depression (or etc). Especially with the added spice of "and also you're a jerk." I do think there's a good point here that these patterns are self-reinforcing, and that there can be a kind of counterintuitive pleasure in really getting down into the muck and living there. See also Notes from Underground. But the snide and aggressive tone here is really bizarre.

pjc50 8y ago

I think it depends on how you take it; some of cognitive behavioural therapy is about changing how you behave physically in order to achieve changes of your mood, or break you out of unhealthy mental habits.

swampers 8y ago

I similarly didn't appreciate this approach. It pillories those who think like this, whether that's within their control or not.

jasonszhao 8y ago

Thank you for the video. As someone who is still in school and struggles with emotion/time management/procrastination, I was particularly hit by "focus on goals that are after which you wish to achieve." People around me have pointed this out to me, but it was only until recently did I realize how serious it was. I think that my impulsive nature and addiction to novelty fuel this problem. Even browsing Hacker News is a manifestation of this. HN always has some cool idea that I could be studying or hacking on when I have free time. But I spend too much time thinking about possibilities than getting done what's right in front of me, because I'm addicted to novelty. I especially neglect school work, which isn't boring at all and rather fascinating and useful, and instead try to find weird things to explore. My huge queue on Pocket is one of many testaments to this. The result is poor, and I feel miserable and disappointed in myself. Of course, as the video touches upon, modern technology (social media, apps, even internet pornography) exploits humans' desire for novelty (though as previously explained, I think I'm far more vulnerable than average). The video helped me see the connection between my habit and this tendency.

SZJX 8y ago
The point is that you'll always have to ensure a chunk of time for your "main" activity and give it sustained efforts. Reading broadly and exploring a range of topics is always good and beneficial, but you need to limit your time on them. If you just spend your whole day reading various disparate newsletters and articles instead of focusing on one book, one particular area that you dive deep into, your career prospect, etc., it wouldn't work.

valdezm 8y ago

Yeah, I am disgusted in reading this, really sickens me. I have reached out to the author that I might be able to help her. This article really makes me want to create a counter-article, "The 14 True Identities of Joyful People"(I've exchanged Habits for True Identities, because it is an inherent worth that we all have and when known transforms us to choose Joy, this not being of works as is the case with habits).. Anyways, I suspect I may just write that article.

SZJX 8y ago

At least this can point out some of the cognitive traps that they might not be aware of. Also this might help people around them recognize their problems and then try to find them help. When the awareness of depression is still not high enough in the population, many of the problems can be hard to properly understand, describe and classify. At least I would say I can recognize some patterns both in my past self and also in several people I am familiar with much clearer after reading it. I don't think the author in any way wanted them to get "pilloried" and "feel bad". That's definitely not the intention.