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Those things never really scared me. Do they also meditate on being sick, in constant crippling pain and come to the same conclusion? I get a stomachache and re

by kgwxd 8y ago

Those things never really scared me. Do they also meditate on being sick, in constant crippling pain and come to the same conclusion? I get a stomachache and recognize a bad personality change in myself. I dont imagine id be able to draw on the same mental skills while in that state for prolonged periods.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pokemongoaway 8y ago
The buddhists do that and more. For example, recognizing the components of the body to such a degree that even when you see the most attractive person you may become entirely disgusted.
naasking 8y ago
> Do they also meditate on being sick, in constant crippling pain and come to the same conclusion? It's more that they reflect on how much worse things could be, in order to instill gratitude and appreciation for what you already have.
ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
I think this is a better exercise. I stole it from Seneca. Look at the back of your wrists: see those fragile greenish-blue veins? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you trip and fall, and a particularly sharp rock on the ground or a shard of glass on the street cuts one of those thin exposed blue-green veins open?
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  What is the reaction you're "supposed" to get by thinking about that? I took a moment to think about it and I don't think I got it. My reaction was, "Well then I probably die", but I don't feel particularly different about the present. If that's the thing I'm supposed to feel then so be it, but I feel Seneca intended for some greater profundity, or he would dispense with the mental theatrics. What am I missing? Does it need to be more visceral?
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    This is the first time I've heard the quote, but I think it's to appreciate that life is short and could end at any time, and while bleeding out you'd realize that worrying about these long-term things was a waste of time.
    - ThePadawan 8y ago
      I fail to see that as highly positive though - with that attitude, I would stop exercising and invest all of my savings into cake and pizza. These things would make me happy each day, but miserable each month.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      In the more likely case that you don't die tomorrow worrying about long term things usually pays off.
      - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
        And what if you lose your fingers and can’t code anymore?
    - Draiken 8y ago
      That's not exactly the purpose Stoics do that AFAIK. One of the objectives is to appreciate what you have right now and stopping this urge that we have in today's society to always get more. If you stop and really think about how bad it would be to live without your eyesight, for example, you can appreciate even the smallest things we take for granted. It's not supposed to be a "carpe diem" thing.
      - posterboy 8y ago
        > carpo#Latin > Compare Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit”) and κείρω (keírō, “to cut off”), English harvest, sharp, shear. Carpe diem totally fits; You just have to consider that an optimum can be approached from two sides, ie the right time to harvest, neither too soon nor too late. In another sense it might mean the day is ripe, I guess. But it's not cape diem, not take the day away.
- Noumenon72 8y ago
  From what I understand about suicide, no little crossways cut on those veins will ever kill you. You have to go up the arm and deep. Humans aren't that fragile really.
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    And the ones you can see are veins, not arteries.
  - dandellion 8y ago
    I've come up with an alternative version of the exercise that might work better: Look at your feet: see those little toes? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you get hit by a speeding 10 ton truck and you die instantly?
    - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
      That’s good too, maybe make it a self driving car instead.
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    You don’t have to cut deep, just enough to make the blood gush. The story says a sharp object to distinguish that.
- tripzilch 8y ago
  I'm probably doing it wrong but the first thing I think of is "better do that on a busy street, hopefully there's someone that knows to bind off my wrist or something[0]" Do I need to imagine that I'll bleed out alone, with everyone walking past me as if I don't exist? Because 1. I don't like that exercise and 2. it mostly makes me consider to what extent I'm currently surrounding myself with people that dis-compassionate an whether I should move ... 3. does it matter that one of my wrists actually has a huge scar, that's grown with me from when I was 4 years old, jumped off a couch and smashed my tiny right wrist into a glass on the table? I managed to miss both my artery and my tendons, ... or I wouldn't be typing this :D
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    You’re not doing it wrong; perhaps you’re more worried about how others will treat you because you feel you’re lacking friendships? Most, if not all, would watch you bleed out: its the bystander effect. See the Kitty Genovese murder. Are you bothered by this? You could have died. I fell and hit a glass table too and now I have a scar right next to my eye, less than a finger width away. I could have lost the eye but I don’t like to think about it either. There’s a lot of stories where I could have been maimed, and I do have injuries that have left me weaker.

by kgwxd 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pokemongoaway 8y ago

The buddhists do that and more. For example, recognizing the components of the body to such a degree that even when you see the most attractive person you may become entirely disgusted.

naasking 8y ago

> Do they also meditate on being sick, in constant crippling pain and come to the same conclusion? It's more that they reflect on how much worse things could be, in order to instill gratitude and appreciation for what you already have.

ulisesrmzroche 8y ago

I think this is a better exercise. I stole it from Seneca. Look at the back of your wrists: see those fragile greenish-blue veins? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you trip and fall, and a particularly sharp rock on the ground or a shard of glass on the street cuts one of those thin exposed blue-green veins open?

throwawaymath 8y ago
What is the reaction you're "supposed" to get by thinking about that? I took a moment to think about it and I don't think I got it. My reaction was, "Well then I probably die", but I don't feel particularly different about the present. If that's the thing I'm supposed to feel then so be it, but I feel Seneca intended for some greater profundity, or he would dispense with the mental theatrics. What am I missing? Does it need to be more visceral?
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  This is the first time I've heard the quote, but I think it's to appreciate that life is short and could end at any time, and while bleeding out you'd realize that worrying about these long-term things was a waste of time.
  - ThePadawan 8y ago
    I fail to see that as highly positive though - with that attitude, I would stop exercising and invest all of my savings into cake and pizza. These things would make me happy each day, but miserable each month.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    In the more likely case that you don't die tomorrow worrying about long term things usually pays off.
    - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
      And what if you lose your fingers and can’t code anymore?
  - Draiken 8y ago
    That's not exactly the purpose Stoics do that AFAIK. One of the objectives is to appreciate what you have right now and stopping this urge that we have in today's society to always get more. If you stop and really think about how bad it would be to live without your eyesight, for example, you can appreciate even the smallest things we take for granted. It's not supposed to be a "carpe diem" thing.
    - posterboy 8y ago
      > carpo#Latin > Compare Greek καρπός (karpós, “fruit”) and κείρω (keírō, “to cut off”), English harvest, sharp, shear. Carpe diem totally fits; You just have to consider that an optimum can be approached from two sides, ie the right time to harvest, neither too soon nor too late. In another sense it might mean the day is ripe, I guess. But it's not cape diem, not take the day away.
Noumenon72 8y ago
From what I understand about suicide, no little crossways cut on those veins will ever kill you. You have to go up the arm and deep. Humans aren't that fragile really.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  And the ones you can see are veins, not arteries.
- dandellion 8y ago
  I've come up with an alternative version of the exercise that might work better: Look at your feet: see those little toes? What if tomorrow - while thinking about some problem with money or love - you get hit by a speeding 10 ton truck and you die instantly?
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    That’s good too, maybe make it a self driving car instead.
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  You don’t have to cut deep, just enough to make the blood gush. The story says a sharp object to distinguish that.
tripzilch 8y ago
I'm probably doing it wrong but the first thing I think of is "better do that on a busy street, hopefully there's someone that knows to bind off my wrist or something[0]" Do I need to imagine that I'll bleed out alone, with everyone walking past me as if I don't exist? Because 1. I don't like that exercise and 2. it mostly makes me consider to what extent I'm currently surrounding myself with people that dis-compassionate an whether I should move ... 3. does it matter that one of my wrists actually has a huge scar, that's grown with me from when I was 4 years old, jumped off a couch and smashed my tiny right wrist into a glass on the table? I managed to miss both my artery and my tendons, ... or I wouldn't be typing this :D
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  You’re not doing it wrong; perhaps you’re more worried about how others will treat you because you feel you’re lacking friendships? Most, if not all, would watch you bleed out: its the bystander effect. See the Kitty Genovese murder. Are you bothered by this? You could have died. I fell and hit a glass table too and now I have a scar right next to my eye, less than a finger width away. I could have lost the eye but I don’t like to think about it either. There’s a lot of stories where I could have been maimed, and I do have injuries that have left me weaker.