8 ms·

I think the open secret is that in 2018 most people who go work for startups are those who simply couldn't get a better offer from one of the big players.

justboxing 8y ago
This.
- cm2187 8y ago
  Stupid question. What does “this” means? (“what does this means” isn’t really googleable).
  - ninkendo 8y ago
    It means "I agree with this, but have nothing else to contribute to the discussion, and don't understand that an upvote would suffice, or I just want to pad the number of comments I'm making on this site."
  - crcl 8y ago
    It's an informal way of agreeing with/emphasizing the parent comment. Your question isn't stupid. Using "this" in such a manner is non-standard English and I can see how the meaning would be unclear if English isn't your first language. It might be unclear even to native speakers if they don't spend much time on internet forums.
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driverdan 8y ago
Plenty of us don't want to work for them regardless of pay.
- hello_moto 8y ago
  I'm not sure "plenty". More like "few".
  - boffinism 8y ago
    My experience of working in startups is that they're populated almost entirely by people who openly mock the idea of 'selling out' by working for a big firm. Maybe that's just the places I've worked (that tend to either be in creative sectors or 'worthy' industries like education). I'd be curious to see a poll on this though.
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kwindla 8y ago
Anecdotally, that's not my experience. I see a lot of people working at startups who got tired of doing things at big companies that just weren't that interesting to them. Those folks have often made enough money that they can afford to work at a startup for a few years because the work itself is more fun, the company has a mission they like, or they appreciate having a bigger day-to-day impact. As a startup founder in San Francisco, I will say that it is increasingly hard to compete for early- to mid-career engineers. So maybe it's true that the pool of people with less than, say, 5 years of dev experience who choose to work at a startup is "lower quality" than those who choose to work at a FAANG, at least using the measures that big companies tend to use in filtering/evaluating. But engineers with less than 5 years of work experience are often not the most valuable engineers. :-)
- dunpeal 8y ago
  > I see a lot of people working at startups who got tired of doing things at big companies that just weren't that interesting to them. Those folks have often made enough money that they can afford to work at a startup for a few years because the work itself is more fun, the company has a mission they like, or they appreciate having a bigger day-to-day impact. The kind of people you describe are basically retired, and working primarily for recreation. While they do exist, they're very rare, and one thing is certain about them: they will _not_ put up with crazy work hours, intense crunches, etc. They are not the type of driven people you need at a startup. They're essentially doing this for fun. If there are too many long days or unpleasant tasks - they're out. Unfortunately, startups need these long days and grueling tasks done, and fast. Far more than the big companies do. So no, these magical people aren't the solution to the fundamental issue, which is: smart employees realized that engineer equity at startups is low value, and can't compare to what big profitable companies pay. The only solution is to increase the equity upside, not rely on the recreationally retired to run your startups.
  - kwindla 8y ago
    I agree about offering early employees as much equity upside as you can (and, just as importantly, a great work environment and team culture). But I disagree that the kind of people I described are rare, or that they are "basically retired." That's just not my experience. Many of the most valuable, hard-working engineers I know at startups have a few years of big company experience in their recent past, and are choosing to do the startup thing all in. Sure, because it's "fun" -- but fun doesn't mean fun every day, and it certainly isn't a synonym for easy. Nobody who has done one thinks startups are easy. :-) Some of us like going to work to do hard things.
kilroy123 8y ago
I don't know about that. I refuse to live in the Bay area and have no desire to live and work for one of the "big players".
archagon 8y ago
Seems like a sad and shitty way to think about other people.

justboxing 8y ago

This.

cm2187 8y ago
Stupid question. What does “this” means? (“what does this means” isn’t really googleable).
- ninkendo 8y ago
  It means "I agree with this, but have nothing else to contribute to the discussion, and don't understand that an upvote would suffice, or I just want to pad the number of comments I'm making on this site."
- crcl 8y ago
  It's an informal way of agreeing with/emphasizing the parent comment. Your question isn't stupid. Using "this" in such a manner is non-standard English and I can see how the meaning would be unclear if English isn't your first language. It might be unclear even to native speakers if they don't spend much time on internet forums.
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driverdan 8y ago

Plenty of us don't want to work for them regardless of pay.

hello_moto 8y ago
I'm not sure "plenty". More like "few".
- boffinism 8y ago
  My experience of working in startups is that they're populated almost entirely by people who openly mock the idea of 'selling out' by working for a big firm. Maybe that's just the places I've worked (that tend to either be in creative sectors or 'worthy' industries like education). I'd be curious to see a poll on this though.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

kwindla 8y ago

Anecdotally, that's not my experience. I see a lot of people working at startups who got tired of doing things at big companies that just weren't that interesting to them. Those folks have often made enough money that they can afford to work at a startup for a few years because the work itself is more fun, the company has a mission they like, or they appreciate having a bigger day-to-day impact. As a startup founder in San Francisco, I will say that it is increasingly hard to compete for early- to mid-career engineers. So maybe it's true that the pool of people with less than, say, 5 years of dev experience who choose to work at a startup is "lower quality" than those who choose to work at a FAANG, at least using the measures that big companies tend to use in filtering/evaluating. But engineers with less than 5 years of work experience are often not the most valuable engineers. :-)

dunpeal 8y ago
> I see a lot of people working at startups who got tired of doing things at big companies that just weren't that interesting to them. Those folks have often made enough money that they can afford to work at a startup for a few years because the work itself is more fun, the company has a mission they like, or they appreciate having a bigger day-to-day impact. The kind of people you describe are basically retired, and working primarily for recreation. While they do exist, they're very rare, and one thing is certain about them: they will _not_ put up with crazy work hours, intense crunches, etc. They are not the type of driven people you need at a startup. They're essentially doing this for fun. If there are too many long days or unpleasant tasks - they're out. Unfortunately, startups need these long days and grueling tasks done, and fast. Far more than the big companies do. So no, these magical people aren't the solution to the fundamental issue, which is: smart employees realized that engineer equity at startups is low value, and can't compare to what big profitable companies pay. The only solution is to increase the equity upside, not rely on the recreationally retired to run your startups.
- kwindla 8y ago
  I agree about offering early employees as much equity upside as you can (and, just as importantly, a great work environment and team culture). But I disagree that the kind of people I described are rare, or that they are "basically retired." That's just not my experience. Many of the most valuable, hard-working engineers I know at startups have a few years of big company experience in their recent past, and are choosing to do the startup thing all in. Sure, because it's "fun" -- but fun doesn't mean fun every day, and it certainly isn't a synonym for easy. Nobody who has done one thinks startups are easy. :-) Some of us like going to work to do hard things.

kilroy123 8y ago

I don't know about that. I refuse to live in the Bay area and have no desire to live and work for one of the "big players".

archagon 8y ago

Seems like a sad and shitty way to think about other people.