6 ms·

I agree with this too. There is a tier of engineers that are good, but for whatever reason, can't get into the big 5. They're bad at white-boarding or maybe the

I agree with this too. There is a tier of engineers that are good, but for whatever reason, can't get into the big 5. They're bad at white-boarding or maybe they don't live in an area where the big 5 have offices. In those cases, maybe a startup makes more sense.

jaegerpicker 8y ago
Often I find a number of great engineers that the big 5 disqualify for two main reasons: Location or Education. The big 5 tend to not allow remote work and if you don't have a college degree it's often hella hard to get an interview.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  But the Big5 have tons of locations. Amazon in particular has tech centers in places like Phoenix and Detroit, while Google is in Chicago. Microsoft is even in Fargo! Unless you want to be a digital nomad I guess. Then it’s probably not ideal, but I do know some fully remote positions exist at the L6 level at Amazon.
  - neutrino7 8y ago
    > But the Big5 have tons of locations Name one Big5 job in the entire U.S. south. Or at least one that pays as well as them. There aren’t any.
    - nunez 8y ago
      Facebook is in Austin; Amazon is in Dallas
      - neutrino7 8y ago
        Ok, so Texas is technically in the South... you got me. I suppose I should have clarified: major southeastern cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, D.C., Nashville, Miami)
        blasdel 8y ago
        AWS has several thousand engineers in the Virginia suburbs of DC, with a bunch of local VP-level management (and that's not including anyone who works on the us-east-1 region)
        didibus 8y ago
        Apple and Amazon could end up choosing Raleigh for their HQ2. So maybe that'll soon change.
        akhilcacharya 8y ago
        I've only ever lived in Raleigh and I'm very skeptical they'll pick Raleigh for HQ2. I'll be very excited if Apple ends up deciding on Raleigh though, it could easily push up salaries significantly.
      - burlesona 8y ago
        Austin isn’t the south. Raleigh / Durham probably is the best tech scene in the south. No mega companies but a good number of second tier, ie. Redhat, Sas, Epic, and so on
        nunez 8y ago
        Last I checked, Austin is south of the Mason-Dixie line and has plenty of small towns around it that will be glad to remind you that you’re in the South. RDU definitely has an enterprise tech scene. So does DFW!
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      Google's Skia team* is in Chapel Hill, Microsoft has a team in Raleigh working on VSTS. I know a few folks that have interned there.
    - seattle_spring 8y ago
      Then don't live in the south. You'll get paid more, the weather will be nicer, and you'll meet less numbskulls with confederate flags painted on the hood of their trucks. Win/win/win.
  - cableshaft 8y ago
    Google has an office in Chicago, but from what I hear it's almost entirely sales jobs. I live in Chicago and periodically have Google recruiters contacting me, and it's never been for a position in Chicago, it's only ever been for Mountain View.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      That is not true anymore. They have engineers now, and they're rapidly expanding. They do have a low base though, $98.5k vs. like $110k or something in MTV (and of course most people negotiate that way, way up).
  - nvarsj 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure they all pay less outside of their HQ location. At least in London, salaries are significantly less for the equivalent role.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      In America, they generally don't. It's a mild adjustment at worst. Chicago is the biggest I've seen - $98.5k base vs. $110k base for L3 SWE - but FB doesn't change their comp, Amazon and Microsoft only increase it in the SFBA and NYC (IIRC). In fact, for new grads Amazon pays the exact same TC in Seattle and in Detroit.
      - nvarsj 8y ago
        Oh cool, didn't realize that. Hopefully London will catch up.
        user5994461 8y ago
        Historically, the money in London has always been in the finance sector. Both large banks and hedge funds.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        nvarsj 8y ago
        I think even in finance you'll be unlikely to touch 400USD (~300 GBP) for a similar level. Sure there are outliers, but of the senior people I know in this area total comp is around 200GBP after many years. It's much easier to just contract (if you don't mind the mercenary role), you'll make similar due to the tax savings.
        user5994461 8y ago
        That seems about right. 100-200k GBP in London, 200k-400k USD in the USA. Standard packages for people with a few years of experience.
- lgregg 8y ago
  Yeah, I doubt I'll even bother to apply to the big 5, maybe even the big 20. I'm coming out of a yearlong software intensive in October with a liberal art major from a marketing background. I know a few people at those companies but there is also the question of leetcode. I think my chances are much higher with other types of companies, startups included.
  - TheHydroImpulse 8y ago
    As someone without a degree, getting an interview at the Big 5 was quite easy. Passing those interviews is another thing entirely but having the right experiences in your resume has been more important in my case.
    - lgregg 8y ago
      That's the thing, right now, I don't really have the "right experiences" that's why startups do seem appealing. I have the skills people are looking for but not the resume validation with internships, the right degree, or school. I got an internship at the start of my intensive where I got to work on some fun problems and used my marketing skills too. I think the only other track would be through open source contributions. If we circled back in December or January, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up at a non-tech SMB, small consultancy, or startup because of my prior experiences in marketing paired with my new SWE skills. Something I was wondering, in your experience or anyone reading, do I have to always focus all the technology stacks for each role and project or can I focus more on the problem I solved? For example, in my internship, for one problem that made a big difference was setting up all their email automation and tieing it into their website. That project wasn't a ton of programming but my work; but by the end got them about $150k in revenue with my other work on their Black Friday sale, as an intern. Most of the SWE projects I got started but wasn't able to finish in the 3 months (priorities kept changing) like a tool that converted audio from videos into searchable indexes for their youtube videos (granular text searchable video basically). I'm hoping to redo that project on my own. I did get their website to speed up though (an older WordPress website).
      - 8y ago
wolco 8y ago
In those cases the big 20 make sense. Stsrtups are great but you are always held hostage waiting to cashin

jaegerpicker 8y ago

Often I find a number of great engineers that the big 5 disqualify for two main reasons: Location or Education. The big 5 tend to not allow remote work and if you don't have a college degree it's often hella hard to get an interview.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
But the Big5 have tons of locations. Amazon in particular has tech centers in places like Phoenix and Detroit, while Google is in Chicago. Microsoft is even in Fargo! Unless you want to be a digital nomad I guess. Then it’s probably not ideal, but I do know some fully remote positions exist at the L6 level at Amazon.
- neutrino7 8y ago
  > But the Big5 have tons of locations Name one Big5 job in the entire U.S. south. Or at least one that pays as well as them. There aren’t any.
  - nunez 8y ago
    Facebook is in Austin; Amazon is in Dallas
    - neutrino7 8y ago
      Ok, so Texas is technically in the South... you got me. I suppose I should have clarified: major southeastern cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, D.C., Nashville, Miami)
      - blasdel 8y ago
        AWS has several thousand engineers in the Virginia suburbs of DC, with a bunch of local VP-level management (and that's not including anyone who works on the us-east-1 region)
      - didibus 8y ago
        Apple and Amazon could end up choosing Raleigh for their HQ2. So maybe that'll soon change.
        akhilcacharya 8y ago
        I've only ever lived in Raleigh and I'm very skeptical they'll pick Raleigh for HQ2. I'll be very excited if Apple ends up deciding on Raleigh though, it could easily push up salaries significantly.
    - burlesona 8y ago
      Austin isn’t the south. Raleigh / Durham probably is the best tech scene in the south. No mega companies but a good number of second tier, ie. Redhat, Sas, Epic, and so on
      - nunez 8y ago
        Last I checked, Austin is south of the Mason-Dixie line and has plenty of small towns around it that will be glad to remind you that you’re in the South. RDU definitely has an enterprise tech scene. So does DFW!
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    Google's Skia team* is in Chapel Hill, Microsoft has a team in Raleigh working on VSTS. I know a few folks that have interned there.
  - seattle_spring 8y ago
    Then don't live in the south. You'll get paid more, the weather will be nicer, and you'll meet less numbskulls with confederate flags painted on the hood of their trucks. Win/win/win.
- cableshaft 8y ago
  Google has an office in Chicago, but from what I hear it's almost entirely sales jobs. I live in Chicago and periodically have Google recruiters contacting me, and it's never been for a position in Chicago, it's only ever been for Mountain View.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    That is not true anymore. They have engineers now, and they're rapidly expanding. They do have a low base though, $98.5k vs. like $110k or something in MTV (and of course most people negotiate that way, way up).
- nvarsj 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure they all pay less outside of their HQ location. At least in London, salaries are significantly less for the equivalent role.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    In America, they generally don't. It's a mild adjustment at worst. Chicago is the biggest I've seen - $98.5k base vs. $110k base for L3 SWE - but FB doesn't change their comp, Amazon and Microsoft only increase it in the SFBA and NYC (IIRC). In fact, for new grads Amazon pays the exact same TC in Seattle and in Detroit.
    - nvarsj 8y ago
      Oh cool, didn't realize that. Hopefully London will catch up.
      - user5994461 8y ago
        Historically, the money in London has always been in the finance sector. Both large banks and hedge funds.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        nvarsj 8y ago
        I think even in finance you'll be unlikely to touch 400USD (~300 GBP) for a similar level. Sure there are outliers, but of the senior people I know in this area total comp is around 200GBP after many years. It's much easier to just contract (if you don't mind the mercenary role), you'll make similar due to the tax savings.
        user5994461 8y ago
        That seems about right. 100-200k GBP in London, 200k-400k USD in the USA. Standard packages for people with a few years of experience.
lgregg 8y ago
Yeah, I doubt I'll even bother to apply to the big 5, maybe even the big 20. I'm coming out of a yearlong software intensive in October with a liberal art major from a marketing background. I know a few people at those companies but there is also the question of leetcode. I think my chances are much higher with other types of companies, startups included.
- TheHydroImpulse 8y ago
  As someone without a degree, getting an interview at the Big 5 was quite easy. Passing those interviews is another thing entirely but having the right experiences in your resume has been more important in my case.
  - lgregg 8y ago
    That's the thing, right now, I don't really have the "right experiences" that's why startups do seem appealing. I have the skills people are looking for but not the resume validation with internships, the right degree, or school. I got an internship at the start of my intensive where I got to work on some fun problems and used my marketing skills too. I think the only other track would be through open source contributions. If we circled back in December or January, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up at a non-tech SMB, small consultancy, or startup because of my prior experiences in marketing paired with my new SWE skills. Something I was wondering, in your experience or anyone reading, do I have to always focus all the technology stacks for each role and project or can I focus more on the problem I solved? For example, in my internship, for one problem that made a big difference was setting up all their email automation and tieing it into their website. That project wasn't a ton of programming but my work; but by the end got them about $150k in revenue with my other work on their Black Friday sale, as an intern. Most of the SWE projects I got started but wasn't able to finish in the 3 months (priorities kept changing) like a tool that converted audio from videos into searchable indexes for their youtube videos (granular text searchable video basically). I'm hoping to redo that project on my own. I did get their website to speed up though (an older WordPress website).
    - 8y ago

wolco 8y ago

In those cases the big 20 make sense. Stsrtups are great but you are always held hostage waiting to cashin