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This is a problem, a large one. What prevents wells from saying "I don't want to pay for your wedding because you might get divorced?" What prevents them from

This is a problem, a large one. What prevents wells from saying "I don't want to pay for your wedding because you might get divorced?" What prevents them from saying "no you can't have a cash advance in country XXX because the exchange rate is volatile?" There is an established remedy for this and it is by removing the ability for exchanges to process cards. Or process them as cash advances.

dahdum 8y ago
There is a large push to get credit card companies to ban firearm purchases, and Citigroup dropped merchants selling them IIRC.
freeone3000 8y ago
The first: Irrelevant, the money's going to be gone regardless. This is the type of purchase you have credit cards. The second: That's actually a thing. Cash advances aren't guaranteed to be available, they're charged at a higher rate, and mine can only be used to get CAD or USD, not anything else. You already can't buy stocks, bonds, or options with a Wells credit card. This is putting crypto in the same bucket as other securities.
- zer00eyz 8y ago
  You can't trade forex either, but those are all considered securities. That would be illegal. BTC isn't considered a security - https://coincenter.org/link/sec-chairman-clayton-bitcoin-is-not-a-security https://coincenter.org/link/sec-chairman-clayton-bitcoin-is-... No matter how you slice it this is the card provider making an arbitrary call, one that should be made at the processor level. Further down someone points out a bank banned the purchase of guns. Let me be clear that I have no love of americas relationship with firearms. But to decide that a CC can't be used to make an otherwise legal purchase is the beginning of a bad thing. As we become more cashless banks need to be more neutral in their dealings.
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    If your argument is that bitcoin is not a security because it's a currency and that it continues to fall under SEC virtual currency guidelines, then wouldn't buying bitcoin be a forex transaction?
    - zer00eyz 8y ago
      We can not class bitcoin as a security: A security is: "a thing deposited or pledged as a guarantee of the fulfillment of an undertaking or the repayment of a loan, to be forfeited in case of default." Bitcoin is an entity unto itself I can buy bitcoin and trade that DIRECTLY for goods - something that is impossible with securities. If bearer bonds were still a thing there might be some argument around directly transferable securities but that is no longer the case. If I buy on forex (in pips) I can not trade those to a merchant directly for anything - bitcoin can be purchased at an exchange (not a market but an exchange) and used to acquire goods directly. Lets look at the justification that the article gives: "A study conducted by LendEDU last year found that roughly 18 percent of Bitcoin investors used a credit card to fund the purchases. Of those, 22 percent couldn’t pay off their balance after buying the digital coin." What percentage of people can't pay their CC after a cash advance in a foreign country? How about after making a comparable major purchase. If we take those facets into account that %22 probably isn't far outside the industry average. There were lots of paths Wells (or the other banks listed) could have taken - this was not a good policy on the merits of what they are saying.
seattle_spring 8y ago
Comparing cryptocurrency to marriage and traveling to foreign countries. I'll take "false equivalencies" for $500, Alex.

dahdum 8y ago

There is a large push to get credit card companies to ban firearm purchases, and Citigroup dropped merchants selling them IIRC.

freeone3000 8y ago

The first: Irrelevant, the money's going to be gone regardless. This is the type of purchase you have credit cards. The second: That's actually a thing. Cash advances aren't guaranteed to be available, they're charged at a higher rate, and mine can only be used to get CAD or USD, not anything else. You already can't buy stocks, bonds, or options with a Wells credit card. This is putting crypto in the same bucket as other securities.

zer00eyz 8y ago
You can't trade forex either, but those are all considered securities. That would be illegal. BTC isn't considered a security - https://coincenter.org/link/sec-chairman-clayton-bitcoin-is-not-a-security https://coincenter.org/link/sec-chairman-clayton-bitcoin-is-... No matter how you slice it this is the card provider making an arbitrary call, one that should be made at the processor level. Further down someone points out a bank banned the purchase of guns. Let me be clear that I have no love of americas relationship with firearms. But to decide that a CC can't be used to make an otherwise legal purchase is the beginning of a bad thing. As we become more cashless banks need to be more neutral in their dealings.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  If your argument is that bitcoin is not a security because it's a currency and that it continues to fall under SEC virtual currency guidelines, then wouldn't buying bitcoin be a forex transaction?
  - zer00eyz 8y ago
    We can not class bitcoin as a security: A security is: "a thing deposited or pledged as a guarantee of the fulfillment of an undertaking or the repayment of a loan, to be forfeited in case of default." Bitcoin is an entity unto itself I can buy bitcoin and trade that DIRECTLY for goods - something that is impossible with securities. If bearer bonds were still a thing there might be some argument around directly transferable securities but that is no longer the case. If I buy on forex (in pips) I can not trade those to a merchant directly for anything - bitcoin can be purchased at an exchange (not a market but an exchange) and used to acquire goods directly. Lets look at the justification that the article gives: "A study conducted by LendEDU last year found that roughly 18 percent of Bitcoin investors used a credit card to fund the purchases. Of those, 22 percent couldn’t pay off their balance after buying the digital coin." What percentage of people can't pay their CC after a cash advance in a foreign country? How about after making a comparable major purchase. If we take those facets into account that %22 probably isn't far outside the industry average. There were lots of paths Wells (or the other banks listed) could have taken - this was not a good policy on the merits of what they are saying.

seattle_spring 8y ago

Comparing cryptocurrency to marriage and traveling to foreign countries. I'll take "false equivalencies" for $500, Alex.