4 ms·

Automotive seems so broken. Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. US companies are too big/corrupt to make good decisions. European cars are all style. Expensiv

Automotive seems so broken. Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. US companies are too big/corrupt to make good decisions. European cars are all style. Expensive, non-reliable, hard to fix. Not sure what the solution is, everyone else is a low quality copycat(Tesla/Kia/Chinese car companies). Not to say any cars are bad, but the companies are awful. A car is entirely dependent on the engineering team behind it, you can only hope that a company set things up to be successful.

ddoolin 8y ago
I know this is not really your point, but what do you mean the US manufacturers are corrupt? From where I'm standing, it looks like European autos have that problem more than the US does.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  I think everyone gets a piece of the profit rather than going back to customers. Unions exploiting the company. Sales people getting special favors. It seems sick.
Spearchucker 8y ago
Just as interesting as the charge that US auto companies are all corrupt - how are European cars unreliable? German cars especially are amongst, if not the most reliable in the world, no? Bear in mind I'm not a petrol head so this is my perception.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  The make/model matters more than company. An f150 is wayyy better than anything else ford makes. Its really uncomparable. As another note, the Chevy Sonic was designed in Germany and is probably the worst car GM made in recent memory. But yes, German cars are known to be a pain to own due to problems and the difficulty to fix them.
- rconti 8y ago
  European cars are considered unreliable in the US because they're generally high-end models with newer tech (and more of it), and that kind of stuff tends to break and be expensive to fix. From a mechanical standpoint, they're not particularly unreliable, but again, parts can be pricier (particularly in the US). The way I view it is that Japanese cars are built with extreme precision in high volume to exactly the right tolerances. They tend to be very consistent and reliable and parts are cheap due to volume. However, if things DO fail, it's generally because they're just slightly underbuilt and built to a pricepoint. German cars tend to be overbuilt from a mechanical standpoint (heavier/sturdier parts) but that doesn't mean they're more reliable as a finished product.
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Hmm, the Prius is ~20yrs old, I suppose you could claim it wasn't innovative, just an incremental improvement, but you could say that about adding turbo- and superchargers to normal IC engines, and all of them increase efficiency. All-electric cars seem innovative to me? They offer a simpler, cleaner, lower-maintenance vehicle which is adequate for day-to-day uses.
dangrossman 8y ago
> Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. Nissan has been leading electric vehicle commercialization for a couple decades now. They made and sold the first commercial li-ion pure electric cars in the US in the '90s, and hundreds of thousands of Nissan Leafs around the world. They're also largely responsible for the largest electric car fast-charging network in the world, the CHAdeMO standard, which has over 18000 public charging points in 51 countries on 5 continents. They've replicated their supply chain and production facilities for in-house EV battery packs, electric motors and EV vehicle production on 3 continents now (JP, US, EU). And their Nissan ProPilot driver assistance system, that can self-drive on well-marked roads today, promises door-to-destination self-driving by 2020.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  As clarification, every company has 'innovated', but its obvious the differences between Japanese companies and the rest of the industry. That is a very large scale 'car' innovation. At the component level, they are using the same stuff as decades ago. Maybe that is okay, but other companies dont do this.
gascan 8y ago
Gasoline engines are getting better and better. Have you seen some of Mazda's latest engine innovations? Emissions have been improving rapidly, and fuel economy has been improving too (unfortunately these gains have been hidden by increasing size and curb weight)
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Is this a result of American regulations and competition?
  - gascan 8y ago
    Yes and yes, I believe. American regulations on emissions have been tightening, which (as one of the largest markets) drives requirements. Also, Mazda is one of the smaller fish, so they have to innovate to stay competitive.
    - rconti 8y ago
      American and Euro standards both. And yeah, Mazda's really been pushing the limits of high compression ratios and alternate cycle engines.
jaclaz 8y ago
>Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. Just in case, soon to hit the market (hopefully) Mazda's HCCI/SCCI new engine: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/253842-mazdas-2019-efficiency-breakthrough-diesel-engine-runs-gasoline https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/253842-mazdas-2019-effic...

ddoolin 8y ago

I know this is not really your point, but what do you mean the US manufacturers are corrupt? From where I'm standing, it looks like European autos have that problem more than the US does.

mkirklions 8y ago
I think everyone gets a piece of the profit rather than going back to customers. Unions exploiting the company. Sales people getting special favors. It seems sick.

Spearchucker 8y ago

Just as interesting as the charge that US auto companies are all corrupt - how are European cars unreliable? German cars especially are amongst, if not the most reliable in the world, no? Bear in mind I'm not a petrol head so this is my perception.

mkirklions 8y ago
The make/model matters more than company. An f150 is wayyy better than anything else ford makes. Its really uncomparable. As another note, the Chevy Sonic was designed in Germany and is probably the worst car GM made in recent memory. But yes, German cars are known to be a pain to own due to problems and the difficulty to fix them.
rconti 8y ago
European cars are considered unreliable in the US because they're generally high-end models with newer tech (and more of it), and that kind of stuff tends to break and be expensive to fix. From a mechanical standpoint, they're not particularly unreliable, but again, parts can be pricier (particularly in the US). The way I view it is that Japanese cars are built with extreme precision in high volume to exactly the right tolerances. They tend to be very consistent and reliable and parts are cheap due to volume. However, if things DO fail, it's generally because they're just slightly underbuilt and built to a pricepoint. German cars tend to be overbuilt from a mechanical standpoint (heavier/sturdier parts) but that doesn't mean they're more reliable as a finished product.

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

Hmm, the Prius is ~20yrs old, I suppose you could claim it wasn't innovative, just an incremental improvement, but you could say that about adding turbo- and superchargers to normal IC engines, and all of them increase efficiency. All-electric cars seem innovative to me? They offer a simpler, cleaner, lower-maintenance vehicle which is adequate for day-to-day uses.

dangrossman 8y ago

> Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. Nissan has been leading electric vehicle commercialization for a couple decades now. They made and sold the first commercial li-ion pure electric cars in the US in the '90s, and hundreds of thousands of Nissan Leafs around the world. They're also largely responsible for the largest electric car fast-charging network in the world, the CHAdeMO standard, which has over 18000 public charging points in 51 countries on 5 continents. They've replicated their supply chain and production facilities for in-house EV battery packs, electric motors and EV vehicle production on 3 continents now (JP, US, EU). And their Nissan ProPilot driver assistance system, that can self-drive on well-marked roads today, promises door-to-destination self-driving by 2020.

mkirklions 8y ago
As clarification, every company has 'innovated', but its obvious the differences between Japanese companies and the rest of the industry. That is a very large scale 'car' innovation. At the component level, they are using the same stuff as decades ago. Maybe that is okay, but other companies dont do this.

gascan 8y ago

Gasoline engines are getting better and better. Have you seen some of Mazda's latest engine innovations? Emissions have been improving rapidly, and fuel economy has been improving too (unfortunately these gains have been hidden by increasing size and curb weight)

mkirklions 8y ago
Is this a result of American regulations and competition?
- gascan 8y ago
  Yes and yes, I believe. American regulations on emissions have been tightening, which (as one of the largest markets) drives requirements. Also, Mazda is one of the smaller fish, so they have to innovate to stay competitive.
  - rconti 8y ago
    American and Euro standards both. And yeah, Mazda's really been pushing the limits of high compression ratios and alternate cycle engines.

jaclaz 8y ago

>Japan hasnt innovated in 30 years. Just in case, soon to hit the market (hopefully) Mazda's HCCI/SCCI new engine: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/253842-mazdas-2019-efficiency-breakthrough-diesel-engine-runs-gasoline https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/253842-mazdas-2019-effic...