4 ms·

Great! Another file format for me to learn. Why can't everyone use one of the standard file types, like YAML/JSON?

by devxpy 8y ago

bodi 8y ago
> Architect leverages Node and NPM to finally bring some structure and insight to the AWS Serverless landscape. But this is the killer Node and NPM framework...
Myztiq 8y ago
https://serverless.com/ https://serverless.com/ - uses yaml or JSON or js. This looks like an opportunity for the community to grow some more which is almost always a benefit. A new filetype isn't always the best, but it CAN be useful in some contexts, I haven't vetted if this is the right one.
- devxpy 8y ago
  Yup, serverless works quite well. have used it myself. Albeit, I'm not fully sold on this whole fake-serverless architecture. A major part of it is that AWS is arguably frustrating, since the docs are __clearly__ written by marketing people, not engineers. Every aspect feels non-dev friendly. I would love to see something like Captain Duck Duck, so you can host your own serverless platfrom, sort-of a personalized AWS? (Captain Duck Duck is a personalized Heroku) Link - https://github.com/githubsaturn/captainduckduck https://github.com/githubsaturn/captainduckduck
jacquesc 8y ago
I really wish people wouldn't use JSON for configuration. The lack of comments and shortcomings in formatting abilities make it particularly ill-suited. { "_comment": "this is a comment" } is cringeworthy to. It's great for transport, but horrible for static file config. YAML is good, but not to everyone's taste. I've been using it for a long time (as a ruby developer) but many people I know find it ugly. I think Arc config looks much better than anything they could have come up with using JSON/YAML. Optimize configuration files for humans, not machines. If its simple enough to learn and be readable, more power to em.
- Xeoncross 8y ago
  Rather than inline-comments I've always had separate documentation. This helps prevent trying to cram all the edge case caveats and everything into the configuration file.
  - kazen44 8y ago
    inline comments are handy for pointing out "non standard" configuration settings for your enviroment. especially on production systems. It aids in troubleshooting greatly to have inline comments point out "odd" settings in configuration without having to look at seperate (usually old) documentation.
- always_good 8y ago
  Then use json5. Super weak excuse. Or use yaml or some other format and pipe it into some to-json converter. Also, json has json schema which tools like VS Code support. They can autocomplete your config. Pretty promising over most other tooling. But coming up with your own config has pretty much all the downsides. Yeah, you can invent some cuter syntax. But now your users can't even get syntax highlighting in their editor. Awful UX.
  - cyphar 8y ago
    JSON5's support for unquoted keys seems like a misfeature. Not to mention that (by its nature) it has the same (lack of) support burden as any other new configuration format. If you're going to go through that frustration and incompatibility, why not pick something better suited to the job?
    - giancarlostoro 8y ago
      > JSON5's support for unquoted keys seems like a misfeature. Seen plenty of JSON without quoted keys before that just seemed to work, so depends on parser.
- devxpy 8y ago
  If you want human, you can look at TOML https://github.com/toml-lang/toml https://github.com/toml-lang/toml Its the thing Pipfile uses. The point is, don't invent file types!
brianleroux 8y ago
To summarize: a three line .arc file yields a 700+ CloudFormation YAML document. Let me know if you have any more questions!
- stingraycharles 8y ago
  This is just not true. The discussion is about the syntax (.arc vs yaml), not the information it contains.
  - devxpy 8y ago
    exactly
  - brianleroux 8y ago
    it's precisely true; but I get your gist. if you enjoy writing that much cloudformation then by all means have a good time!
    - stingraycharles 8y ago
      I don’t think you get my gist about syntax vs information. I can express the same data in a different format, in the same way that JSON and YAML can often be transformed into each other. You are pulling a straw man by implying that requires much cloudformation, which is completely unrelated. Besides, CF is a good example of how you can use two different syntax to describe the same information.
      - abiox 8y ago
        > I don’t think you get my gist if so, leading with "just not true" contributed to this (which seems like a non-sequitur if you're not saying the claim is false)
    - motogpjimbo 8y ago
      The format of a configuration file has no relation to the output of the program that parses it. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Your three-line arc file would be a three line YAML file. Stop doubling down on this nonsense.
Annatar 8y ago
Why can't everyone use plain simple shell syntax for setting values and then source the configuration file?

Great! Another file format for me to learn. Why can't everyone use one of the standard file types, like YAML/JSON?

by devxpy 8y ago

Great! Another file format for me to learn. Why can't everyone use one of the standard file types, like YAML/JSON?

bodi 8y ago

> Architect leverages Node and NPM to finally bring some structure and insight to the AWS Serverless landscape. But this is the killer Node and NPM framework...

Myztiq 8y ago

https://serverless.com/ https://serverless.com/ - uses yaml or JSON or js. This looks like an opportunity for the community to grow some more which is almost always a benefit. A new filetype isn't always the best, but it CAN be useful in some contexts, I haven't vetted if this is the right one.

devxpy 8y ago
Yup, serverless works quite well. have used it myself. Albeit, I'm not fully sold on this whole fake-serverless architecture. A major part of it is that AWS is arguably frustrating, since the docs are __clearly__ written by marketing people, not engineers. Every aspect feels non-dev friendly. I would love to see something like Captain Duck Duck, so you can host your own serverless platfrom, sort-of a personalized AWS? (Captain Duck Duck is a personalized Heroku) Link - https://github.com/githubsaturn/captainduckduck https://github.com/githubsaturn/captainduckduck

jacquesc 8y ago

I really wish people wouldn't use JSON for configuration. The lack of comments and shortcomings in formatting abilities make it particularly ill-suited. { "_comment": "this is a comment" } is cringeworthy to. It's great for transport, but horrible for static file config. YAML is good, but not to everyone's taste. I've been using it for a long time (as a ruby developer) but many people I know find it ugly. I think Arc config looks much better than anything they could have come up with using JSON/YAML. Optimize configuration files for humans, not machines. If its simple enough to learn and be readable, more power to em.

Xeoncross 8y ago
Rather than inline-comments I've always had separate documentation. This helps prevent trying to cram all the edge case caveats and everything into the configuration file.
- kazen44 8y ago
  inline comments are handy for pointing out "non standard" configuration settings for your enviroment. especially on production systems. It aids in troubleshooting greatly to have inline comments point out "odd" settings in configuration without having to look at seperate (usually old) documentation.
always_good 8y ago
Then use json5. Super weak excuse. Or use yaml or some other format and pipe it into some to-json converter. Also, json has json schema which tools like VS Code support. They can autocomplete your config. Pretty promising over most other tooling. But coming up with your own config has pretty much all the downsides. Yeah, you can invent some cuter syntax. But now your users can't even get syntax highlighting in their editor. Awful UX.
- cyphar 8y ago
  JSON5's support for unquoted keys seems like a misfeature. Not to mention that (by its nature) it has the same (lack of) support burden as any other new configuration format. If you're going to go through that frustration and incompatibility, why not pick something better suited to the job?
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    > JSON5's support for unquoted keys seems like a misfeature. Seen plenty of JSON without quoted keys before that just seemed to work, so depends on parser.
devxpy 8y ago
If you want human, you can look at TOML https://github.com/toml-lang/toml https://github.com/toml-lang/toml Its the thing Pipfile uses. The point is, don't invent file types!

brianleroux 8y ago

To summarize: a three line .arc file yields a 700+ CloudFormation YAML document. Let me know if you have any more questions!

stingraycharles 8y ago
This is just not true. The discussion is about the syntax (.arc vs yaml), not the information it contains.
- devxpy 8y ago
  exactly
- brianleroux 8y ago
  it's precisely true; but I get your gist. if you enjoy writing that much cloudformation then by all means have a good time!
  - stingraycharles 8y ago
    I don’t think you get my gist about syntax vs information. I can express the same data in a different format, in the same way that JSON and YAML can often be transformed into each other. You are pulling a straw man by implying that requires much cloudformation, which is completely unrelated. Besides, CF is a good example of how you can use two different syntax to describe the same information.
    - abiox 8y ago
      > I don’t think you get my gist if so, leading with "just not true" contributed to this (which seems like a non-sequitur if you're not saying the claim is false)
  - motogpjimbo 8y ago
    The format of a configuration file has no relation to the output of the program that parses it. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Your three-line arc file would be a three line YAML file. Stop doubling down on this nonsense.

Annatar 8y ago

Why can't everyone use plain simple shell syntax for setting values and then source the configuration file?