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>Cattlemen and dairy farmers are saddling up, and lawyering up, in response. The U.S. Cattlemen’s Association has petitioned the Agriculture Department to bar p
by frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
>Cattlemen and dairy farmers are saddling up, and lawyering up, in response. The U.S. Cattlemen’s Association has petitioned the Agriculture Department to bar plant-based products from bearing labels that say “beef” or “meat,” with similar restrictions on meat grown from animal cells.
I understand their gripe with plant products, that sounds like deceptive advertising. But the lab-grown stuff is still meat. I think they're trying to take a yard here.
>High-tech upstarts say the proposed labeling rules are a poor defense, pointing out that on a molecular level, plant-based meat products can contain the same amino acids, fats and minerals as animal flesh.
>“People don’t get angry when you call your cellphone a phone,” said Ethan Brown, chief executive of Beyond Meat.
Yes but if I try to buy a "computer" and you give me a phone, it's not a defense to tell me that it still has RAM and hard storage and a screen, etc. Veggies and tofu rolled into a patty may be a "burger" but it's not "meat" or "beef."
>Jaime Athos, chief executive of the Tofurky Co., which sells imitation tofu-based roasts and patties, objects to any ban on the word “meat” in labels. Consumers hear tofu, he said, and “expect it to be bland or not meat-like.”
Jaime, this is your advertising challenge. You don't just pretend your product is something else.
- ddppee 8y agoBut it's imitation meat. Why not call it meat. Are hotdogs deceptive advertising now too as they probably don't contain any dog meat?
- rdiddly 8y agoNor are they hot, until you heat them.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y agoIt has to do with the understanding of the common consumer since they're who we're protecting here. Go ask most consumers what 'meat' means and they'll tell you (something like) it's the flesh of an animal. Ask them what 'beef' is and they'll tell you it's the flesh of a cow. Ask them what a 'hotdog' is and no one is going to tell you it's the flesh of a dog. The goal here is to make sure consumers know what it is they're buying. If I go to the store, am idly shopping and pick up something that looks like this [1] in the meat section and then get home and open it up and cook it and it's actually this [2] I'm going to feel taken. And rightfully so. [1] https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/59e9d405-24bb-431a-b98b-98dad89b63fc_1.b0de471a3ae195f19079b8a9c9542ed6.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/59e9d405-24bb-431a-b98b-98d... [2] https://images.wsj.net/im-13668?width=1260&aspect_ratio=1.5 https://images.wsj.net/im-13668?width=1260&aspect_ratio=1.5
- undersuit 8y ago>Ask them what a 'hotdog' is and no one is going to tell you it's the flesh of a dog. The goal here is to make sure consumers know what it is they're buying. Ahh so this will clear up the contents of what is in hotdog(and other processed meats) and allow me to not be bamboozled into eating fake meat.
- gbrown 8y agoProtecting lazy and inattentive shoppers from accidentally buying a plant based product is sufficient reason for heavy handed regulation? This is a non problem being trumped up by an industry that wants to use regulatory capture to make its competitors products less attractive and visible.
- ncallaway 8y ago> Protecting lazy and inattentive shoppers from accidentally buying a plant based product is sufficient reason for heavy handed regulation? Where do you draw the line for what deceptive labeling is allowed and what isn't? How many of the other existing food labeling regulations should we throw out? What if I label my package to look _very_ similar to a meat product, but put the words "not real meat" in size 8 font on the bottom of the package, is that acceptable?
- gbrown 8y ago> What if I label my package to look _very_ similar to a meat product, but put the words "not real meat" Then I think you'd have a complaint under existing laws, rather than trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill. The same would be true in reverse, if a product claimed prominently to be tofu based but contained meat. I think it's very, very telling that part of the desired result for the meat industry is to prevent these products from sharing shelf space.
- CompanionCuuube 8y agoAnd if non-Kosher food tried to get put in the Kosher food section and went under brands such as Beyond Kosher?
- the_gastropod 8y agoWait 'til people find out the truth about buffalo wings...
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y agoActually if you look at the frozen wing section in your grocery store you'll see that many of them are called 'Wyngz' because the Department of Ag. prevents using the term 'wing' unless it's an actual wing. [1] This seems good to me, it means that when shopping for wings I'm not going to be tricked by what I am buying. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyngz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyngz
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- the_gastropod 8y agoWhoa! I've never seen this. That's pretty funny. Thanks for sharing!
- Alex3917 8y agoAnd yet in the U.S. most buffalo mozzarella comes from prison labor, where prisoners are sent out into the fields with a bucket to try to milk the buffalo and are occasionally trampled to death for the prison guard's entertainment.
- drivingmenuts 8y agoI think this is an appropriate time for [citation needed]. I'm not saying you're making that up, but I would definitely like to see some proof.
- Alex3917 8y agohttps://psmag.com/economics/from-our-prison-to-your-dinner-table https://psmag.com/economics/from-our-prison-to-your-dinner-t...
- ericdykstra 8y agoI would still want a distinction between lab-grown meat and meat from a butchered animal; I'm not interested in putting science experiments in my body.
- padobson 8y agoAll of this. There is no defense for hiding the truth from your customers. How is anyone helped by selling tofu to someone that wanted to buy beef? And if something can be labeled GMO or non-GMO, why can't it be labeled lab-created or bio-engineered or the like? It might be molecularly the same, but what's the harm in letting folks know?
- bunderbunder 8y ago> I understand their gripe with plant products, that sounds like deceptive advertising. It really isn't, though, in practice. All these products have packaging that is designed to make them immediately recognizable as plant-based products. They want, first and foremost, to be attractive to their core market: Vegetarians. They may make other overtures in an effort to attract people who do eat meat, but those invariably involve trying to sell their being plant-based as a thing that makes them a healthier product. Even the Beyond Meat brand, which is the one that skirts the closest to being deceptive here, by virtue of their name, still has "PLANT-BASED XXXX" written front, center, and in large contrasting color letters on the packaging of their products. Banning words like "beef" and "meat" from the packaging sounds like something that would actually engender confusion among consumers, by effectively banning phrases like "meat free" from the packaging. This whole effort reads to me as a rather blatant example of rent seeking behavior on the part of an incumbent industry in response to new entrants to the market.
- LunaSea 8y agoSo it should be fine with you if a regular beef steak was called "tofu" since taste is a transitive property.
- bunderbunder 8y agoThat hypothetical would be a bit more compelling if it weren't predicated the idea that someone might invent a version of steak that is white, gelatinous and shelf stable.
- Alex3917 8y ago> a rather blatant example of rent seeking behavior on the part of an incumbent industry in response to new entrants to the market. This. For all the shit that people give Silicon Valley, Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods are both going to have a huge positive impact on the world. Already they're as good or better than all but the very best meat-based burgers.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago>Even the Beyond Meat brand, which is the one that skirts the closest to being deceptive here, by virtue of their name, still has "PLANT-BASED XXXX" written front, center, and in large contrasting color letters on the packaging of their products. Do they though? I mean here look at this [1]. It totally supports your point, "Plant-Based" is front and center in big green letters. But what about this product? [2] And what about this one? [3] And this one? It says Real Meat right at the top. [4] And these are going in the meat aisle? Right next to real, actual meat? This is blatant false advertising and consumers are going to be tricked by these products. >Banning words like "beef" and "meat" from the packaging sounds like something that would actually engender confusion among consumers, by effectively banning phrases like "meat free" from the packaging. Oh come on, get real. This wouldn't be a problem if "PLANT-BASED" actually was front and center on all of these products. >This whole effort reads to me as a rather blatant example of rent seeking behavior on the part of an incumbent industry in response to new entrants to the market. Well you're welcome to read whatever you want into it. I'd really like to see you defend those beef crumbles though. What if those chicken strips are right next to actual chicken strips? You don't think some consumer fresh off work or wrangling a kid or what have you is going to grab them thinking they're actual meat products? Of course they are. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Meat-Burger-0-5/dp/B074YGZ77H https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Meat-Burger-0-5/dp/B074YGZ77H [2] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beyond-Beef-Crumbles-Beefy-11-0-OZ/121312093 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beyond-Beef-Crumbles-... [3] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/137284038 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/13728403... [4] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip/119191370 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip...
- undersuit 8y agoI guess my problem with the meat producers trying to lock down the word meat is that I'm not buying "meat". I buy specific things. I want to buy chicken. I want to know the chicken was raised in a humane way, as far away from cages and their most recent defection event as possible. I'd like to buy chicken raised on a omnivorous diet of pecking whatever seeds and animals they find on the ground, but I'll take vegetarian raised chicken too. I usually buy as much of the chicken as possible minus the feet, heads, and feathers. Reducing the burden I have to go through to buy meat will increase the amount of meat I buy. Forbidding the labeling of meat substitutes as meat will not increase the amount of meat I buy or decrease the burden of researching and choosing that meat, but it will still offer me with lots of meat-substitutes with heavily regulated labeling that allows me to decrease the burden of researching and choosing my proteins.
- delbel 8y agoUrine is mostly water, and salt. Gatorade is mostly water, and salt. If I sold you a bottle of urine, and labeled it as Gatorade, would you be OK with that? What if I put "natural flavoring" (what could be more natural than this!)?
- nasmorn 8y agoHaving tasted it I would say people would have their expectations met. My biggest gripe with this whole soy/wheat meat is the price. It is literally more expensive then using a chicken to turn the wheat and soy into meat. How is that even possible? Obviously it just milks the vegetarians for what they are worth. Otherwise it would be a great substitute for chicken nuggets style meat products. They have no texture or natural flavor anyways
- CompanionCuuube 8y agoCouldn't someone disrupt the tofu industry by making a product Beyond Tofu containing meat?