5 ms·

People complaining about dockless scooters strewn over sidewalks makes me wonder how we ever got people to stop littering. If the primary reason why people leav

People complaining about dockless scooters strewn over sidewalks makes me wonder how we ever got people to stop littering. If the primary reason why people leave scooters in the middle of the sidewalk is out of empathy-lacking convenience, then why don't people throw food wrappers and plastic bottles all over the sidewalk in the same quantities and for the same reasons? The answer (supposedly) is due to widespread anti-littering campaigns and the new ubiquity of trash cans. Why can't there be similar measures for scooters? Painting lines on sidewalks saying "it's OK to park a scooter here!" (painting lines being an option that costs almost nothing and is completed extremely quickly) combined with signage saying "you must park dockless scooters only in the lines or else $250 fine" (akin to only throwing trash in trash bins or else fine). Scooters aren't inherently problematic, it's the sclerotic municipalities which refuse to adapt to changing circumstances who are the real culprits.

hamandcheese 8y ago
Maybe, just maybe, the level of scooters strewn about is wildly overstated.
- e40 8y ago
  I agree. As a pedestrian I see scooters whizzing past me about 10x more than I see scooters left on the sidewalk. When I have the opportunity, I tell the drivers, very nicely, that they aren't supposed to be on the sidewalk. Very often I get some 4 letter words thrown my way. This is why I hate the things.
CaptainZapp 8y ago
So you suggest that cities pay for infrastructure in order to enable financial gain of private companies. Let's just say that I disagree.
- ThrustVectoring 8y ago
  I mean, cities already pay for roads, and food trucks are a thing.
- thucydidesofusa 8y ago
  Cities should only pay for infrastructure that other people get value out of. Do you want cities funding infrastructure that no one values? Is building a bridge to no where better than a bridge that people want?
- ameister14 8y ago
  Cities have done that for thousands of years. It's a symbiotic relationship. The businesses pay taxes which pay for services to make the businesses more viable.
- jonknee 8y ago
  That's par for the course, for example you don't see Ford chipping in for the 275,000 street parking spots in the Bay Area. SF could easily remove one parking spot per block and make it parking for bikes and scooters. But then all the people used to the city subsidizing their parking will be in an uproar. It's only a subsidy when the other guy gets it.
- solatic 8y ago
  No, I'm suggesting that cities pay for infrastructure to reduce the negative externalities imposed by dockless scooter companies. If such infrastructure incidentally makes it easier for those companies to make a profit, because the lack of the negative externalities is no longer producing a negative effect on the company's reputation, is that really so horrible? Are you willing to, through inaction, harm society just so a private company won't profit? Sure, ideally, the scooter company should pay some kind of tax or fee to help pay for the infrastructure, but I'm not convinced that it needs to be a special tax or fee, applied only to the scooter companies, beyond typical general corporate income taxes etc. that the scooter company is already paying. Particularly because the infrastructure costs involved are cheap. In my opinion, society is better served by government moving quickly to provide needed services out of a general fund, than it is by delaying action for months or years just so that expenditures are 100% just instead of 99.9999% just. There is a balance...
laughinghan 8y ago
You’ll find no disagreement from me that we needn’t completely ban scooters, only figure out the right way to regulate them. Not coincidentally, the MTA isn’t completely banning them, just beginning to regulate them. As for the specific solution you suggested, I think that sounds great, although it isn’t obvious to me that it would “cost nothing”. At the very least, deciding on parking spots for them seems like it would take a lot of a bunch of government employees’ time. It certainly seems reasonable to me to start with a permitting system on the handful of companies, which seems like it would take much less time to implement.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Why can't there be similar measures for scooters Because when your only hammer is regulation everything else is a nail. Edit: this isn't meant negatively. If you ask a painter what will make your house nicer they'll tell you to paint it. If you ask an organization that creates and enforces legislation to solve a problem they'll try to legislate it out of existence. Problems are solved with the tools at hand.
gamblor956 8y ago
In Santa Monica, they're planning to add a pictograph of a scooter to bike lanes so the tourists know to ride there instead of the side walks. (And they're charging the scooter companies additional fees to pay for the costs.)
- henrypray 8y ago
  They've also started a marketing campaign. Recently saw a banner on a city bus with 3 "scooter laws" written on the side (helmet, not on sidewalks, etc). Both Lime and Bird have adopted giving out free helmets to frequent riders. Seems they're much more accepted down here as well when compared to SF.
Retric 8y ago
You can't store your stuff in public areas. This has little to do with scooters, leave your motorcycle on the sidewalk and it's likely to be gone when you get back. PS: A much better solution IMO is to simply pick them up and sell em for scrap. Problem solved.
- nerfhammer 8y ago
  uh, where do you park your bike?

hamandcheese 8y ago

Maybe, just maybe, the level of scooters strewn about is wildly overstated.

e40 8y ago
I agree. As a pedestrian I see scooters whizzing past me about 10x more than I see scooters left on the sidewalk. When I have the opportunity, I tell the drivers, very nicely, that they aren't supposed to be on the sidewalk. Very often I get some 4 letter words thrown my way. This is why I hate the things.

CaptainZapp 8y ago

So you suggest that cities pay for infrastructure in order to enable financial gain of private companies. Let's just say that I disagree.

ThrustVectoring 8y ago
I mean, cities already pay for roads, and food trucks are a thing.
thucydidesofusa 8y ago
Cities should only pay for infrastructure that other people get value out of. Do you want cities funding infrastructure that no one values? Is building a bridge to no where better than a bridge that people want?
ameister14 8y ago
Cities have done that for thousands of years. It's a symbiotic relationship. The businesses pay taxes which pay for services to make the businesses more viable.
jonknee 8y ago
That's par for the course, for example you don't see Ford chipping in for the 275,000 street parking spots in the Bay Area. SF could easily remove one parking spot per block and make it parking for bikes and scooters. But then all the people used to the city subsidizing their parking will be in an uproar. It's only a subsidy when the other guy gets it.
solatic 8y ago
No, I'm suggesting that cities pay for infrastructure to reduce the negative externalities imposed by dockless scooter companies. If such infrastructure incidentally makes it easier for those companies to make a profit, because the lack of the negative externalities is no longer producing a negative effect on the company's reputation, is that really so horrible? Are you willing to, through inaction, harm society just so a private company won't profit? Sure, ideally, the scooter company should pay some kind of tax or fee to help pay for the infrastructure, but I'm not convinced that it needs to be a special tax or fee, applied only to the scooter companies, beyond typical general corporate income taxes etc. that the scooter company is already paying. Particularly because the infrastructure costs involved are cheap. In my opinion, society is better served by government moving quickly to provide needed services out of a general fund, than it is by delaying action for months or years just so that expenditures are 100% just instead of 99.9999% just. There is a balance...

laughinghan 8y ago

You’ll find no disagreement from me that we needn’t completely ban scooters, only figure out the right way to regulate them. Not coincidentally, the MTA isn’t completely banning them, just beginning to regulate them. As for the specific solution you suggested, I think that sounds great, although it isn’t obvious to me that it would “cost nothing”. At the very least, deciding on parking spots for them seems like it would take a lot of a bunch of government employees’ time. It certainly seems reasonable to me to start with a permitting system on the handful of companies, which seems like it would take much less time to implement.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>Why can't there be similar measures for scooters Because when your only hammer is regulation everything else is a nail. Edit: this isn't meant negatively. If you ask a painter what will make your house nicer they'll tell you to paint it. If you ask an organization that creates and enforces legislation to solve a problem they'll try to legislate it out of existence. Problems are solved with the tools at hand.

gamblor956 8y ago

In Santa Monica, they're planning to add a pictograph of a scooter to bike lanes so the tourists know to ride there instead of the side walks. (And they're charging the scooter companies additional fees to pay for the costs.)

henrypray 8y ago
They've also started a marketing campaign. Recently saw a banner on a city bus with 3 "scooter laws" written on the side (helmet, not on sidewalks, etc). Both Lime and Bird have adopted giving out free helmets to frequent riders. Seems they're much more accepted down here as well when compared to SF.

Retric 8y ago

You can't store your stuff in public areas. This has little to do with scooters, leave your motorcycle on the sidewalk and it's likely to be gone when you get back. PS: A much better solution IMO is to simply pick them up and sell em for scrap. Problem solved.

nerfhammer 8y ago
uh, where do you park your bike?