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gun owners are going through this right now. This is why gun owners are so sensitive to any registration. They know that gun registries are a precursor to gun c

gun owners are going through this right now. This is why gun owners are so sensitive to any registration. They know that gun registries are a precursor to gun confiscation and prosecution. Historically speaking governments have always been the worst perpetrators of violence on their own people.

mpweiher 8y ago
"This is what car owners and house owners are going through right now, they know that car and house registries are precursors to confiscation and prosecution." Oh..wait...
- balabaster 8y ago
  The insurance companies with a "put this device that monitors everything you do in the car, tracking you wherever you go, whatever you do and we'll give you an insurance discount." Um... you could give me an almost 100% discount and I'm still not giving you the very ammunition that you will use against me at the first opportunity I need to make a claim despite never having made an insurance claim in the last 20 years. Not to mention, I'm not having you watch everywhere I go, when I go, building a profile about where I spend my time, who I spend that time with, when I do that, when I'm home, when I'm not home. You can have the mandatory information I must give you in order to be able to drive my car and take care of people in the event of an accident. Beyond that, I'm not giving you anything.
  - netinmate 8y ago
    Of course when you crash into me and it's your fault, you'll just walk away because I doubt that you'll be able to pay for your mistake, and MY insurance and my money will be spent to cover for your inadequacies. Freedom is not free, except you just want others to pay, it's the classic argument against government.
    - balabaster 8y ago
      My insurance is fully comprehensive and is plenty enough to cover taking care of whatever is damaged and whoever is hurt. The wording of your statement makes a lot of assumptions about the kind of person I am and my level of responsibility towards others without you even knowing me.
Xeoncross 8y ago
> "Historically speaking governments have always been the worst perpetrators of violence on their own people." Yes, when people talk about deaths and dangers it's amazing to me that just about every other cause of death is so tiny compared to the numbers our own governments have produced.
- balabaster 8y ago
  and in the case of the Jews as I highlighted, the violence perpetrated by the government underwritten by data freely given by the hand of those in jeopardy, writing their own death warrant. On one hand, I think free access to data could be both fascinating and beneficial to the entire human race if used benevolently. But let's face it. History has shown us that any company with access to this data will eventually share it or sell it to someone less scrupulous and it will end up being used against those who gave it freely in the first place thinking that it was either safe or at least couldn't harm them. I'm looking at you, Cambridge Analytica.
cgriswald 8y ago
It's worse than just confiscation. The Journal News created an interactive map of permit holders[0] in New York. It is not hard to see how this information could be misused by criminals looking to acquire a weapon, cop-haters (lots of them are cops or retired cops) or others. [0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/nyregion/newspaper-takes-down-map-of-gun-permit-holders.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/nyregion/newspaper-takes-...
balabaster 8y ago
I disagree with gun registries being a precursor to confiscation and prosecution. I think the Government in their wisdom is trying to do the right thing. Having weapons registered means that if a crime occurs with a gun, it can be traced to a legal owner and they can be held accountable for the crime. This in turn means that legal gun owners will be more responsible with the storage and use of their weapons which will reduce the amount of crimes perpetrated by "legal" weapons. It will mean that if a weapon is stolen, it will be reported as such because the registered owner doesn't want to be held accountable for a crime with a stolen weapon. There is much good that can come from registration. It will lead to more responsible gun owners. However, the argument on the other side of the fence is also true - criminals will always be able to get unfettered access to illegal weapons. However, those weapons will have to be smuggled into the country, not stolen from those who purchased them through legal channels. But just like the Jews, if you've got a gun and owning a gun becomes a crime that the government decide to enforce retroactively, then you have effectively signed your arrest warrant by registering them. I don't think this is their intention however. Their intention is merely to hold legal gun owners to a standard of care that I believe they should be held and currently aren't. They're saying "if you own a gun, you're going to be expected to care for it responsibly. If you do not care for it responsibly, you are going to be held accountable for the damage it causes." But you know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The government has a history of making laws that seem to be well intended that end up being exploited because they're overreaching while saying "oh, we don't mean that, we'll never enforce it in that way."
- balabaster 8y ago
  They also have a history of pushing through unpopular legislation by tacking it onto bills they can force it through with by holding congress over a barrel. "If you want this, you have to agree to this too." I view this as malpractice and a corrupt way of introducing legislation, but this seems to be an accepted way of behaving which leaves me aghast every time I see it.
- cgriswald 8y ago
  > I disagree with gun registries being a precursor to confiscation and prosecution. I have two friends who openly advocate for this method of removing guns from the US. Regardless, I think this is something gun owners fear. When Canada had a registration list, it seized weapons that were legal when purchased and later made illegal by bureaucratic decision, without compensation.

mpweiher 8y ago

"This is what car owners and house owners are going through right now, they know that car and house registries are precursors to confiscation and prosecution." Oh..wait...

balabaster 8y ago
The insurance companies with a "put this device that monitors everything you do in the car, tracking you wherever you go, whatever you do and we'll give you an insurance discount." Um... you could give me an almost 100% discount and I'm still not giving you the very ammunition that you will use against me at the first opportunity I need to make a claim despite never having made an insurance claim in the last 20 years. Not to mention, I'm not having you watch everywhere I go, when I go, building a profile about where I spend my time, who I spend that time with, when I do that, when I'm home, when I'm not home. You can have the mandatory information I must give you in order to be able to drive my car and take care of people in the event of an accident. Beyond that, I'm not giving you anything.
- netinmate 8y ago
  Of course when you crash into me and it's your fault, you'll just walk away because I doubt that you'll be able to pay for your mistake, and MY insurance and my money will be spent to cover for your inadequacies. Freedom is not free, except you just want others to pay, it's the classic argument against government.
  - balabaster 8y ago
    My insurance is fully comprehensive and is plenty enough to cover taking care of whatever is damaged and whoever is hurt. The wording of your statement makes a lot of assumptions about the kind of person I am and my level of responsibility towards others without you even knowing me.

Xeoncross 8y ago

> "Historically speaking governments have always been the worst perpetrators of violence on their own people." Yes, when people talk about deaths and dangers it's amazing to me that just about every other cause of death is so tiny compared to the numbers our own governments have produced.

balabaster 8y ago
and in the case of the Jews as I highlighted, the violence perpetrated by the government underwritten by data freely given by the hand of those in jeopardy, writing their own death warrant. On one hand, I think free access to data could be both fascinating and beneficial to the entire human race if used benevolently. But let's face it. History has shown us that any company with access to this data will eventually share it or sell it to someone less scrupulous and it will end up being used against those who gave it freely in the first place thinking that it was either safe or at least couldn't harm them. I'm looking at you, Cambridge Analytica.

cgriswald 8y ago

It's worse than just confiscation. The Journal News created an interactive map of permit holders[0] in New York. It is not hard to see how this information could be misused by criminals looking to acquire a weapon, cop-haters (lots of them are cops or retired cops) or others. [0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/nyregion/newspaper-takes-down-map-of-gun-permit-holders.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/nyregion/newspaper-takes-...

balabaster 8y ago

I disagree with gun registries being a precursor to confiscation and prosecution. I think the Government in their wisdom is trying to do the right thing. Having weapons registered means that if a crime occurs with a gun, it can be traced to a legal owner and they can be held accountable for the crime. This in turn means that legal gun owners will be more responsible with the storage and use of their weapons which will reduce the amount of crimes perpetrated by "legal" weapons. It will mean that if a weapon is stolen, it will be reported as such because the registered owner doesn't want to be held accountable for a crime with a stolen weapon. There is much good that can come from registration. It will lead to more responsible gun owners. However, the argument on the other side of the fence is also true - criminals will always be able to get unfettered access to illegal weapons. However, those weapons will have to be smuggled into the country, not stolen from those who purchased them through legal channels. But just like the Jews, if you've got a gun and owning a gun becomes a crime that the government decide to enforce retroactively, then you have effectively signed your arrest warrant by registering them. I don't think this is their intention however. Their intention is merely to hold legal gun owners to a standard of care that I believe they should be held and currently aren't. They're saying "if you own a gun, you're going to be expected to care for it responsibly. If you do not care for it responsibly, you are going to be held accountable for the damage it causes." But you know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The government has a history of making laws that seem to be well intended that end up being exploited because they're overreaching while saying "oh, we don't mean that, we'll never enforce it in that way."

balabaster 8y ago
They also have a history of pushing through unpopular legislation by tacking it onto bills they can force it through with by holding congress over a barrel. "If you want this, you have to agree to this too." I view this as malpractice and a corrupt way of introducing legislation, but this seems to be an accepted way of behaving which leaves me aghast every time I see it.
cgriswald 8y ago
> I disagree with gun registries being a precursor to confiscation and prosecution. I have two friends who openly advocate for this method of removing guns from the US. Regardless, I think this is something gun owners fear. When Canada had a registration list, it seized weapons that were legal when purchased and later made illegal by bureaucratic decision, without compensation.