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For someone living in a town that is still scooter-free at the moment (Chicago) can someone explain to me: 1. Wouldn't it be a great business for thieves to sp

by drcode 8y ago

For someone living in a town that is still scooter-free at the moment (Chicago) can someone explain to me: 1. Wouldn't it be a great business for thieves to specialize in stealing these and finding out a way to fence them in large quantities? 2. How can it be economical to pay people to lug these to their homes and charge them on a regular basis? 3. With tires that small, and with many riders riding them that are not experienced with skateboarding and other small-tired vehicles (which can get viciously trapped in crevasses/potholes while driving full speed) isn't the risk of injury pretty high, far higher than a bicycle? 4. What is the reliability like on these things? It seems like it would be a device with pretty frequent electrical problems and loose connections. I'm mostly a fan of the idea BTW, I just am unclear of the economics...

sschueller 8y ago
One thing I can say is that the scotters from Lime around Zürich appear to be in quite bad shape for only being on the streets for a few weeks now.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  I wondered about them, since it's illegal in Switzerland to ride anything motorized on a pavement (also goes for hover boards, Segway's and such). While the cops will hardly send in a SWAT team to nab offenders there's a very real risk, in that insurers will not pay if you're involved in an accident.
  - sschueller 8y ago
    I was wondering that myself so I checked. It turns out scotters with a handle bars are legal but with restrictions. - they must ride where bikes go. This means they must use bike paths if available and stay of the sidewalk - Users must be 16 or older. Under 16 but over 14 can use them but must have a Mofa license. - max speed must be under 20km/h - helmets are not required. I have however only ever seen people using them on the sidewalk :/
runako 8y ago
> a town that is still scooter-free at the moment (Chicago) I was surprised to see this, given that Atlanta is covered in scooters. (We usually are on the later side of these rollouts.) Lime is claiming they have a presence in Chicago, so maybe they just haven't made it to your neighborhood yet.
- dpeck 8y ago
  I think our weather made the scooters arrive here earlier than other places. Chicago just came out of winter 6 weeks ago while its been shorts weather in Atlanta since March. I'll be surprised if the loop wasn't drowning in scoots by end of summer.
beisner 8y ago
I'm not sure about the scooters in question, but there's a similar dockless model for bicycles in many cities in China (ofo, Mobike, etc.) and as far as I can tell the bikes there are made of components that are pretty unique to those brands of bike. Because of their unique shapes and non-standard fittings, they'd basically be useless on any other bike frame, which means that the aftermarket value is extremely low. Additionally, the locking mechanisms are pretty robust and are welded to the frame, so removing the locking mechanism and just using the bike for free just isn't worth it given how cheap riding it is. There might be some cultural differences that might make things different for scooters in America, but if the service is offered very cheaply, and the scooters are unique enough in build to be useless for retrofitting other scooters, then I don't see much of a market opportunity for fencing. Especially if the scooters have accurate GPS welded to their frames.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  I think that seriously underestimates how industrious some of people who collect scrap metal are. If scooters get popular then people will steal them. It only takes one person to figure out some way to monetize your scooters before all your scooters are disappearing and need to patch the exploit. I'm betting that for awhile most scooters will be vulnerable to the typical "apply cordless drill in the right place" exploit. The battery packs will probably be the most useful thing to scrapper. There will probably be a cottage industry of people repackaging them in more useful form factors and then selling the end result on eBay. The motors aren't going to be worth much but if you're already picking one apart you may as well pull the motor and toss it in the electric motors pile.
probably_wrong 8y ago
Points 1 and 2 are answered in this article [1] from a couple weeks ago. To summarize: 1. Scooters are indeed stolen. The batteries can be sold for around $50. "The Bird will chirp at you if you try to steal it, but they chirp so often that no one pays attention 2. From the charger's POV, they do it on the side: "in the end it pays for a fancy dinner" and "It’s like a game and I would do it even if the prices were halved, which they probably will be". From the company's point of view, would it really be a surprise if they were losing money? [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charging-electric-scooters-is-a-cutthroat-business/560747/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charg...

by drcode 8y ago

sschueller 8y ago

One thing I can say is that the scotters from Lime around Zürich appear to be in quite bad shape for only being on the streets for a few weeks now.

CaptainZapp 8y ago
I wondered about them, since it's illegal in Switzerland to ride anything motorized on a pavement (also goes for hover boards, Segway's and such). While the cops will hardly send in a SWAT team to nab offenders there's a very real risk, in that insurers will not pay if you're involved in an accident.
- sschueller 8y ago
  I was wondering that myself so I checked. It turns out scotters with a handle bars are legal but with restrictions. - they must ride where bikes go. This means they must use bike paths if available and stay of the sidewalk - Users must be 16 or older. Under 16 but over 14 can use them but must have a Mofa license. - max speed must be under 20km/h - helmets are not required. I have however only ever seen people using them on the sidewalk :/

runako 8y ago

> a town that is still scooter-free at the moment (Chicago) I was surprised to see this, given that Atlanta is covered in scooters. (We usually are on the later side of these rollouts.) Lime is claiming they have a presence in Chicago, so maybe they just haven't made it to your neighborhood yet.

dpeck 8y ago
I think our weather made the scooters arrive here earlier than other places. Chicago just came out of winter 6 weeks ago while its been shorts weather in Atlanta since March. I'll be surprised if the loop wasn't drowning in scoots by end of summer.

beisner 8y ago

I'm not sure about the scooters in question, but there's a similar dockless model for bicycles in many cities in China (ofo, Mobike, etc.) and as far as I can tell the bikes there are made of components that are pretty unique to those brands of bike. Because of their unique shapes and non-standard fittings, they'd basically be useless on any other bike frame, which means that the aftermarket value is extremely low. Additionally, the locking mechanisms are pretty robust and are welded to the frame, so removing the locking mechanism and just using the bike for free just isn't worth it given how cheap riding it is. There might be some cultural differences that might make things different for scooters in America, but if the service is offered very cheaply, and the scooters are unique enough in build to be useless for retrofitting other scooters, then I don't see much of a market opportunity for fencing. Especially if the scooters have accurate GPS welded to their frames.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
I think that seriously underestimates how industrious some of people who collect scrap metal are. If scooters get popular then people will steal them. It only takes one person to figure out some way to monetize your scooters before all your scooters are disappearing and need to patch the exploit. I'm betting that for awhile most scooters will be vulnerable to the typical "apply cordless drill in the right place" exploit. The battery packs will probably be the most useful thing to scrapper. There will probably be a cottage industry of people repackaging them in more useful form factors and then selling the end result on eBay. The motors aren't going to be worth much but if you're already picking one apart you may as well pull the motor and toss it in the electric motors pile.

probably_wrong 8y ago

Points 1 and 2 are answered in this article [1] from a couple weeks ago. To summarize: 1. Scooters are indeed stolen. The batteries can be sold for around $50. "The Bird will chirp at you if you try to steal it, but they chirp so often that no one pays attention 2. From the charger's POV, they do it on the side: "in the end it pays for a fancy dinner" and "It’s like a game and I would do it even if the prices were halved, which they probably will be". From the company's point of view, would it really be a surprise if they were losing money? [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charging-electric-scooters-is-a-cutthroat-business/560747/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charg...