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> Honne and tatemae are Japanese words that describe the contrast between a person's true feelings and desires (本音 hon'ne, "true sound") and the behavior and op

> Honne and tatemae are Japanese words that describe the contrast between a person's true feelings and desires (本音 hon'ne, "true sound") and the behavior and opinions one displays in public (建前 tatemae, "built in front", "façade").[1] I have always felt uncomfortable with the concept of "inside face and outside face". It comes off as disingenuous and dishonest. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae

ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
We all do it, it’s just the Japanese are more poetic about it. Read Marx on social masks.
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
In the UK were I live, every time I get service at a shop the shopsperson smiles at me. I am pretty sure that's not because I am such a smile-inducing person. Rather the position requires it. Is that disingenuous and dishonest, or simply a social convention that people adhere too without overthinking it?
Timpy 8y ago
We do it in the West as well, it's just a formalized structure in Japan (and possibly other East Asian countries, but I can only speak from experience with Japan). "Hey it was really nice seeing you! We should totally catch up some time." ~American Tatemae
sdrothrock 8y ago
> I have always felt uncomfortable with the concept of "inside face and outside face". It comes off as disingenuous and dishonest. Or is the unsubtle expression of the concept uncomfortable? Americans do the same thing; you can see this in the casual talk Americans also have with cashiers or wait staff. Just because you're friendly and chatting doesn't mean you actually want to be friends and go out and do something together. The Culture Map by Erin Meyer expresses this idea as a spectrum from a peach to a coconut: on the one end, you get a soft exterior with a hard interior; on the other, a hard interior with a soft exterior. The point though, is that everyone does this -- just in a different way. I've known some Japanese people who've gone to the US, been confronted with the super friendly casual American attitude, then been horribly offended when it turned out that that friendliness wasn't "real." Part of this is the stereotype that Americans are "honest and direct," and part of this is that Americans tend toward the peach end of the spectrum, while Japanese people tend toward the coconut end.

ulisesrmzroche 8y ago

We all do it, it’s just the Japanese are more poetic about it. Read Marx on social masks.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

In the UK were I live, every time I get service at a shop the shopsperson smiles at me. I am pretty sure that's not because I am such a smile-inducing person. Rather the position requires it. Is that disingenuous and dishonest, or simply a social convention that people adhere too without overthinking it?

Timpy 8y ago

We do it in the West as well, it's just a formalized structure in Japan (and possibly other East Asian countries, but I can only speak from experience with Japan). "Hey it was really nice seeing you! We should totally catch up some time." ~American Tatemae

sdrothrock 8y ago

> I have always felt uncomfortable with the concept of "inside face and outside face". It comes off as disingenuous and dishonest. Or is the unsubtle expression of the concept uncomfortable? Americans do the same thing; you can see this in the casual talk Americans also have with cashiers or wait staff. Just because you're friendly and chatting doesn't mean you actually want to be friends and go out and do something together. The Culture Map by Erin Meyer expresses this idea as a spectrum from a peach to a coconut: on the one end, you get a soft exterior with a hard interior; on the other, a hard interior with a soft exterior. The point though, is that everyone does this -- just in a different way. I've known some Japanese people who've gone to the US, been confronted with the super friendly casual American attitude, then been horribly offended when it turned out that that friendliness wasn't "real." Part of this is the stereotype that Americans are "honest and direct," and part of this is that Americans tend toward the peach end of the spectrum, while Japanese people tend toward the coconut end.