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The War on Dignity

48 points by yasp 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ganoushoreilly 8y ago
This is probably going to be a risky post here on Hnews, and i'm not sure of the credibility of the publication, but I too think we live in a Victimhood Culture.
- RickJWagner 8y ago
  I agree.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mosselman 8y ago
I have lots of javascript disabled everywhere I go so only the first paragraph was visible. It wasn't until I opened the print preview that I saw the rest. We should rally against javascript-on-culture.
kitanata 8y ago
This is wrong. Not wrong in an immoral sense but wrong in an academic sense. This so called “victimhood” culture arose as a culture of “believe and support the victim”. Of course within that idea of taking the victim’s side first a few people have exploited that for their own selfish reasons and some people have been unfairly targeted as a result. But this “believe the victim first” mentality came about as an inverse to the “give the accused the benefit of the doubt” mentality because the latter suppressed the former’s credibility and made it difficult for real victims of real heinous shit to come forward. Also as a straight white male, I’m insulted by this author’s idea that this “victimhood culture” seeks to invert the power pyramid where now the white dudes are on the bottom. The point of these movements isn’t to invert the power structure, it’s to destroy that power structure entirely. There shouldn’t be a fucking pyramid. That’s the point. “Victimhood culture” (i.e. social justice movements) is dignity culture. It’s about bringing dignity to those who historically hasn’t had that. It’s about bringing dignity to people who have lost their dignity through acts that have caused them trauma. It’s always been about dignity.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  You missed the point of the article. By giving victims power, people who are attracted to power make themselves victims. The two people who purportedly started this movement (bed girl and the girl who posted her own hate message) did so purely for the power (they weren’t actual victims). Yes, we should support victims. No, we should not make them celebrities.
- kthejoker2 8y ago
  You missed another point, which is that (as ever) the side with power co-opts these cultures to their own end. Examples include "the war on Christmas" and surveys indicating a majority of white Americans feel white people are discriminated against ( https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-americans-think-theyre-discriminated-against https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-a... ) Witness a man who has reached the pinnacle of business and government in the most powerful nation on Earth, sending out Tweets protesting that he's the victim of a "deep state" "witch hunt".
- supreme_sublime 8y ago
  >But this “believe the victim first” mentality came about as an inverse to the “give the accused the benefit of the doubt” mentality because the latter suppressed the former’s credibility and made it difficult for real victims of real heinous shit to come forward. Are you referring to our courts "innocent until proven guilty" standard? I'd suggest you be extremely careful in trying to change that. During the Obama Administration Title IX was used as an extrajudicial bludgeon to expel students who were deemed "more likely than not" to have done something illegal. They were not allowed legal representation during the "trials". This resulted in many cases where police exonerated the alleged perpetrator through evidence, but the student was expelled anyway. The Emma Sulkowicz story is one of these cases. "Listen and believe" is probably okay for friends giving support to their friend. Legal standards on the other hand must be more strict and an accusation cannot be a conviction.
kthejoker2 8y ago
Campbell and Manning's paper is interesting, a touch too anecdotal for my tastes, but I do agree that dignity and respectability politics has seemingly vanished from the ether. By the way, this article is short and useless, check out these links for some more in depth reviews of the book and its position - I don't agree or disagree with these articles, they just cover the topic in more detail. Caveat lector. https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/honor-dignity-victim-cultures/ https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/honor-dignity-victim-cu... https://fee.org/articles/victimhood-has-become-the-ultimate-status-symbol/ https://fee.org/articles/victimhood-has-become-the-ultimate-... https://www.thecut.com/2015/09/microaggression-complaints-and-victimhood.html https://www.thecut.com/2015/09/microaggression-complaints-an... http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-... https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2015/09/honor-dignity-victimhood-and-death-of.html https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2015/09/honor-dignity-vi... And of course the book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/3319703285 https://www.amazon.com/dp/3319703285?
- yasp 8y ago
  Thanks for all the links.
- shenanigoat 8y ago
  Yikes...kindle edition in Canada is $30.
  - m0llusk 8y ago
    That price is a microaggression! Respect readers!

48 points by yasp 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

This is probably going to be a risky post here on Hnews, and i'm not sure of the credibility of the publication, but I too think we live in a Victimhood Culture.

RickJWagner 8y ago
I agree.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mosselman 8y ago

I have lots of javascript disabled everywhere I go so only the first paragraph was visible. It wasn't until I opened the print preview that I saw the rest. We should rally against javascript-on-culture.

kitanata 8y ago

This is wrong. Not wrong in an immoral sense but wrong in an academic sense. This so called “victimhood” culture arose as a culture of “believe and support the victim”. Of course within that idea of taking the victim’s side first a few people have exploited that for their own selfish reasons and some people have been unfairly targeted as a result. But this “believe the victim first” mentality came about as an inverse to the “give the accused the benefit of the doubt” mentality because the latter suppressed the former’s credibility and made it difficult for real victims of real heinous shit to come forward. Also as a straight white male, I’m insulted by this author’s idea that this “victimhood culture” seeks to invert the power pyramid where now the white dudes are on the bottom. The point of these movements isn’t to invert the power structure, it’s to destroy that power structure entirely. There shouldn’t be a fucking pyramid. That’s the point. “Victimhood culture” (i.e. social justice movements) is dignity culture. It’s about bringing dignity to those who historically hasn’t had that. It’s about bringing dignity to people who have lost their dignity through acts that have caused them trauma. It’s always been about dignity.

jbob2000 8y ago
You missed the point of the article. By giving victims power, people who are attracted to power make themselves victims. The two people who purportedly started this movement (bed girl and the girl who posted her own hate message) did so purely for the power (they weren’t actual victims). Yes, we should support victims. No, we should not make them celebrities.
kthejoker2 8y ago
You missed another point, which is that (as ever) the side with power co-opts these cultures to their own end. Examples include "the war on Christmas" and surveys indicating a majority of white Americans feel white people are discriminated against ( https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-americans-think-theyre-discriminated-against https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-a... ) Witness a man who has reached the pinnacle of business and government in the most powerful nation on Earth, sending out Tweets protesting that he's the victim of a "deep state" "witch hunt".
supreme_sublime 8y ago
>But this “believe the victim first” mentality came about as an inverse to the “give the accused the benefit of the doubt” mentality because the latter suppressed the former’s credibility and made it difficult for real victims of real heinous shit to come forward. Are you referring to our courts "innocent until proven guilty" standard? I'd suggest you be extremely careful in trying to change that. During the Obama Administration Title IX was used as an extrajudicial bludgeon to expel students who were deemed "more likely than not" to have done something illegal. They were not allowed legal representation during the "trials". This resulted in many cases where police exonerated the alleged perpetrator through evidence, but the student was expelled anyway. The Emma Sulkowicz story is one of these cases. "Listen and believe" is probably okay for friends giving support to their friend. Legal standards on the other hand must be more strict and an accusation cannot be a conviction.

kthejoker2 8y ago

Campbell and Manning's paper is interesting, a touch too anecdotal for my tastes, but I do agree that dignity and respectability politics has seemingly vanished from the ether. By the way, this article is short and useless, check out these links for some more in depth reviews of the book and its position - I don't agree or disagree with these articles, they just cover the topic in more detail. Caveat lector. https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/honor-dignity-victim-cultures/ https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/honor-dignity-victim-cu... https://fee.org/articles/victimhood-has-become-the-ultimate-status-symbol/ https://fee.org/articles/victimhood-has-become-the-ultimate-... https://www.thecut.com/2015/09/microaggression-complaints-and-victimhood.html https://www.thecut.com/2015/09/microaggression-complaints-an... http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-from/ http://righteousmind.com/where-microaggressions-really-come-... https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2015/09/honor-dignity-victimhood-and-death-of.html https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2015/09/honor-dignity-vi... And of course the book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/3319703285 https://www.amazon.com/dp/3319703285?

yasp 8y ago
Thanks for all the links.
shenanigoat 8y ago
Yikes...kindle edition in Canada is $30.
- m0llusk 8y ago
  That price is a microaggression! Respect readers!