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You are American (Latin). Western means not-communist, since almost the entire world favors collectivism over individualism, almost no culture is 'western'. The

You are American (Latin). Western means not-communist, since almost the entire world favors collectivism over individualism, almost no culture is 'western'. The default position is socialism, in the case of the North America colonies (post revolution) the model of ancient Greece was re-imagined to create a new type of country, so far it has been highly successful yet not very equal. this means if you work hard you can provide for yourself but if you work smart you can leapfrog a lot of hard workers and if you work hard and smart you can become filthy rich and start manipulating the entire system. the checks and balances and freedoms in place are supposed to limit some of the economic imbalances when a ultrarich guy like Rockefeller with Standard Oil or Bezos with Amazon wants to make himself defacto king. If you want a comparison with ancient Rome, Trump is Crassus, and the outrage and resistance to his nomination and presidency hints at an established dynastic patrician class of American politicians who refuse a common businessman to infiltrate their halls of power. If you prefer to be a competitive individual who is only compelled by their own inner morality to help others you are western. If you prefer to live in a society where everyone thrives and there is broad equality, safety and harmony then you are of an eastern mind. The argument of having both or a mixture becomes a contentious historical and political issue, having your cake and eating it too. China is making a strong attempt at blending these two ideas into a new political theory, spearheaded by Xi Jingping's One Belt One Road Initiative and the addition of new member states to the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation).

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Western means not-communist, No, it doesn't. > since almost the entire world favors collectivism over individualism, almost no culture is 'western'. You can favor collectivism and still not be communist, so that doesn't follow even if the preceding claim were true. > The default position is socialism No, it's not, and you seem to be conflating socialism, collectivism, and communism, which are not the same thing. > in the case of the North America colonies (post revolution) the model of ancient Greece was re-imagined to create a new type of country No, it wasn't. While classical references (Roman as much as Greek) were trendy at the time, the basic model of government was very closely modeled on contemporary European models with vary slight tweaks.)
- cerealbad 8y ago
  18th Century contemporary European models? European or English? The Spanish are in a 200 year decline, French revolution led to Napoleon, Germany is still the Kingdom of Prussia, Russia will continue to be an Empire until 1917. Could you specifically name the models and tweaks? The founding fathers borrowed from English common law and government, because they were English. Did they set up a Tsardom? A dauphin? An emperor? I am conflating socialism, collectivism and communism because they fall under an umbrella I have dubbed eastern thought, not because they are the same thing. They are branches inheriting ideas from a root tree- which happens to span the entire world. Can you name another culture which elevated the individual above the collective? I could've also said western means non-islamic, given that West vs East dates back all the way to fracturing of the Byzantine Empire and later the Crusades. But we don't live in a bipolar religious age, not since the fall of Christian influence and the rise of the Enlightenment, around the same time we are discussing. The real debate of the 21st century is which type of capitalism will succeed, co-operative or competitive at the international stage, this is why I mentioned China and the SCO. I felt it was important to highlight the economic thread given all the wasted energy on race, religion and gender politics.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I am conflating socialism, collectivism and communism because they fall under an umbrella I have dubbed eastern thought, not because they are the same thing. Your argument required that they were the same thing (and not merely under a common in umbrella) when said that (1) Western means non-Communist, (2) most of the world is collectivist and therefore not Western, and (3) the global “default” is socialist. Also, socialism and communism are both Western in origin as philosophies, collectivism is more general and doesn't really have a single origin. To call all three “Eastern” thought is to invent novel terminology with no connection to the normal use of terms. > I could've also said western means non-islamic And been just as wrong. If you wanted to use a religious distinction and at least be close to being accurate, you could say “Western” means those societies that were on the West side of the Schism of 1054, their direct descendants, and those reshaped by them as a result of falling in war or who have deliberately modeled their societies on them without being compelled. You'd still probably not quite be right, but you'd be close.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Western means not-communist, No, it doesn't. > since almost the entire world favors collectivism over individualism, almost no culture is 'western'. You can favor collectivism and still not be communist, so that doesn't follow even if the preceding claim were true. > The default position is socialism No, it's not, and you seem to be conflating socialism, collectivism, and communism, which are not the same thing. > in the case of the North America colonies (post revolution) the model of ancient Greece was re-imagined to create a new type of country No, it wasn't. While classical references (Roman as much as Greek) were trendy at the time, the basic model of government was very closely modeled on contemporary European models with vary slight tweaks.)

cerealbad 8y ago
18th Century contemporary European models? European or English? The Spanish are in a 200 year decline, French revolution led to Napoleon, Germany is still the Kingdom of Prussia, Russia will continue to be an Empire until 1917. Could you specifically name the models and tweaks? The founding fathers borrowed from English common law and government, because they were English. Did they set up a Tsardom? A dauphin? An emperor? I am conflating socialism, collectivism and communism because they fall under an umbrella I have dubbed eastern thought, not because they are the same thing. They are branches inheriting ideas from a root tree- which happens to span the entire world. Can you name another culture which elevated the individual above the collective? I could've also said western means non-islamic, given that West vs East dates back all the way to fracturing of the Byzantine Empire and later the Crusades. But we don't live in a bipolar religious age, not since the fall of Christian influence and the rise of the Enlightenment, around the same time we are discussing. The real debate of the 21st century is which type of capitalism will succeed, co-operative or competitive at the international stage, this is why I mentioned China and the SCO. I felt it was important to highlight the economic thread given all the wasted energy on race, religion and gender politics.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I am conflating socialism, collectivism and communism because they fall under an umbrella I have dubbed eastern thought, not because they are the same thing. Your argument required that they were the same thing (and not merely under a common in umbrella) when said that (1) Western means non-Communist, (2) most of the world is collectivist and therefore not Western, and (3) the global “default” is socialist. Also, socialism and communism are both Western in origin as philosophies, collectivism is more general and doesn't really have a single origin. To call all three “Eastern” thought is to invent novel terminology with no connection to the normal use of terms. > I could've also said western means non-islamic And been just as wrong. If you wanted to use a religious distinction and at least be close to being accurate, you could say “Western” means those societies that were on the West side of the Schism of 1054, their direct descendants, and those reshaped by them as a result of falling in war or who have deliberately modeled their societies on them without being compelled. You'd still probably not quite be right, but you'd be close.