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> There is no doubt that scooters could be safer if helmet laws were better enforced and basic safety training was provided before riding. Helmet laws arguably

> There is no doubt that scooters could be safer if helmet laws were better enforced and basic safety training was provided before riding. Helmet laws arguably does not work very well for bicycles.[1][2] Don't make the mistake of thinking it will work better for scooters (if you can't back it up). Still not sure why I'd chose this over a bicycle. A bicycle gives me daily exercise and doesn't need a battery to operate. Also, it runs well on ice and in 20 cm of snow when winter commuting. I guess that's more than you can say about scooters. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhMEkMtLy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhMEkMtLy0 [2] https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to-wear-bike-helmets https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to...

stale2002 8y ago
Can you go to a bar and leave your bike inside? I do that all the time with my scooter. (I don't have an electric one, just a normal push scooter). Portability is a huge advantage that scooters have over bikes. I take my scooter literally everywhere I go, anywhere in San Francisco. It is actually 100% of the time. And If I don't want to scooter home, I just call an Uber and put it in the back.
- lostlogin 8y ago
  I can’t find any electric scooter DUI records on a quick skim. I wonder how this will play out?
- conradev 8y ago
  Same for me but replace “scooter” with “27in longboard”.
- unicornporn 8y ago
  > Can you go to a bar and leave your bike inside? That's a good thing. But leaving it locked outside and walking ten meters into the bar works fine. > I don't have an electric one, just a normal push scooter How far do you commute on that thing? Yesterday I rode 15 km to a lake to meet some friends. When leaving I felt like riding more so I took a 30 km detour to a natures reserve before I began pedaling home. The freedom bicycles give me is why I truly love them so much. No electronic black box with limited range stopping me, just simple mechanics and my legs. Another great thing is that it can carry the things I need to take with me (usually a lot). Racks and panniers are awesome and takes carrying the load off my body. And yeah, I get to exercise while having fun.
- alexgmcm 8y ago
  Yeah, I had a folding bike but it was still really heavy. Also a folding bike is a much worse riding experience than a full size bike but bike theft is absolutely endemic in my city. Maybe I should try an e-scooter, some of my colleagues have them.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
> * Also, it runs well on ice and in 20 cm of snow when winter commuting.* I've biked to work in ice and snow quite a bit. It does run, but I wouldn't say it runs well. I usually opt for the bus if the weather is that bad.
- unicornporn 8y ago
  Ice, no problems at all with good studded tires. We usually have icy conditions for up to 5 months. A bit of snow just slows things down. I like riding in the winter because the bike roads are usually less congested. :)
Reedx 8y ago
> Helmet laws arguably does not work very well for bicycles. Yeah, the evidence is actually pretty compelling that requiring bike helmets is a net negative to society. It's unfortunate how little it gets questioned.
- JanisL 8y ago
  I'd love to see some data-backed analysis of this, links would be appreciated.
  - unicornporn 8y ago
    https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to-wear-bike-helmets https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to... is sprinkled with sciency hyperlinks.
    - chillwaves 8y ago
      That article is light on actual data, lots of lines like this: > Many people also suggest that wearing a helmet makes cyclists themselves less cautious in their riding, increasing the chance of an accident. So if you are willing to believe a data point like that, then clearly helmets make people less safe. Having been in a high speed accident, a helmet saved my life. The article also states that walking is no more dangerous than riding a bike, though physics disagrees.
      - unicornporn 8y ago
        >> That article is light on actual data, lots of lines like this: > Many people also suggest that wearing a helmet makes cyclists themselves less cautious in their riding, increasing the chance of an accident. That very sentence linked to http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full , which indeed lacks data. There's are points to be made (with some data) though, like: http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf > Having been in a high speed accident, a helmet saved my life. I'm glad you're alive. If you're in a serious accident a helmet is a very good thing to have. No one argues that. The point is that serious accidents are very rare. People seem a lot less likely to ride a bike if they need to wear a helmet—I wear a helmet 95% of the time and I do not understand why—and the health benefits from cycling far outweigh the risks. The article even says: "Helmet proponents are right about one thing: If you're in a serious accident, then wearing a helmet makes the odds of a head injury significantly lower — by somewhere between 15 and 40 percent." > The article also states that walking is no more dangerous than riding a bike, though physics disagrees. I believe that is because stats are by "per kilometre travelled" (at least the 2012 British study). People usually bike longer distances than they walk. Another alternative is a https://hovding.se/ https://hovding.se/. A lot of people in Stockholm wear one, but they are quite expensive.
teniutza 8y ago
My problem with biking during the (work)day is the sweating. I'm all for getting the exercise but 1) I don't have a shower at the office and 2) my co-workers wouldn't really like me smelling like a football team. I think it really depends on weather conditions, location and distance.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  Take shower right before the ride.
- Shivetya 8y ago
  The common joke about buying a motorcycle is that "buy honey I will save money on gas" but it suffers the same issues for most that bicycles and scooters have which you mentioned. This isn't about cities not favoring alternate modes of transportation but the realities of our daily lives. From distance to job, some time cause by having to change employers, to have so many things to do and little time to get them done. So once you start adding on the weather, the needs to carry stuff, or changes to your schedule, alternate modes quickly fall by the way side. my issue with escooters is not the tech but the items highlighted in the article but I am not nearly as forgiving. I am not sure I want them in the bike lane and you know someone will ride on sidewalks. throw in no helmets or enforcement of requirements for one and its a recipe to hurt both riders and pedestrians. plus when people don't own it they don't respect it. not for all people but there are more than enough who just act out wrongly. there are stories of people dumping them in rivers, dumpsters, and even just breaking them. In a perfect society...
- emj 8y ago
  That depends on you commute I guess, I spend about 50 minutes on a bicycle, and it's enough to just have a change of clothes, but I do shower before riding a bicycle and wear clean clothes after the bike ride.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  Body odour is caused by the bacteria that colonize your sweat. By taking a shower just before you leave, you knock those bacteria back far enough to give you quite a few stink-free hours so that you should be able to make it through the work day. Secondly, make sure you wear natural fabrics. Lycra and polyster and all of the artificial fabrics stink a lot worse than cotton or wool.
collyw 8y ago
> Also, it runs well on ice and in 20 cm of snow when winter commuting. That's the one time when I won't use my bike. Rain worries me as the rim brakes on my city get really weak, so I slow down a fair bit, but I am scared on snow and ice. Fortunately we don't get much where I live.

stale2002 8y ago

Can you go to a bar and leave your bike inside? I do that all the time with my scooter. (I don't have an electric one, just a normal push scooter). Portability is a huge advantage that scooters have over bikes. I take my scooter literally everywhere I go, anywhere in San Francisco. It is actually 100% of the time. And If I don't want to scooter home, I just call an Uber and put it in the back.

lostlogin 8y ago
I can’t find any electric scooter DUI records on a quick skim. I wonder how this will play out?
conradev 8y ago
Same for me but replace “scooter” with “27in longboard”.
unicornporn 8y ago
> Can you go to a bar and leave your bike inside? That's a good thing. But leaving it locked outside and walking ten meters into the bar works fine. > I don't have an electric one, just a normal push scooter How far do you commute on that thing? Yesterday I rode 15 km to a lake to meet some friends. When leaving I felt like riding more so I took a 30 km detour to a natures reserve before I began pedaling home. The freedom bicycles give me is why I truly love them so much. No electronic black box with limited range stopping me, just simple mechanics and my legs. Another great thing is that it can carry the things I need to take with me (usually a lot). Racks and panniers are awesome and takes carrying the load off my body. And yeah, I get to exercise while having fun.
alexgmcm 8y ago
Yeah, I had a folding bike but it was still really heavy. Also a folding bike is a much worse riding experience than a full size bike but bike theft is absolutely endemic in my city. Maybe I should try an e-scooter, some of my colleagues have them.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

> * Also, it runs well on ice and in 20 cm of snow when winter commuting.* I've biked to work in ice and snow quite a bit. It does run, but I wouldn't say it runs well. I usually opt for the bus if the weather is that bad.

unicornporn 8y ago
Ice, no problems at all with good studded tires. We usually have icy conditions for up to 5 months. A bit of snow just slows things down. I like riding in the winter because the bike roads are usually less congested. :)

Reedx 8y ago

> Helmet laws arguably does not work very well for bicycles. Yeah, the evidence is actually pretty compelling that requiring bike helmets is a net negative to society. It's unfortunate how little it gets questioned.

JanisL 8y ago
I'd love to see some data-backed analysis of this, links would be appreciated.
- unicornporn 8y ago
  https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to-wear-bike-helmets https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to... is sprinkled with sciency hyperlinks.
  - chillwaves 8y ago
    That article is light on actual data, lots of lines like this: > Many people also suggest that wearing a helmet makes cyclists themselves less cautious in their riding, increasing the chance of an accident. So if you are willing to believe a data point like that, then clearly helmets make people less safe. Having been in a high speed accident, a helmet saved my life. The article also states that walking is no more dangerous than riding a bike, though physics disagrees.
    - unicornporn 8y ago
      >> That article is light on actual data, lots of lines like this: > Many people also suggest that wearing a helmet makes cyclists themselves less cautious in their riding, increasing the chance of an accident. That very sentence linked to http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full , which indeed lacks data. There's are points to be made (with some data) though, like: http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf > Having been in a high speed accident, a helmet saved my life. I'm glad you're alive. If you're in a serious accident a helmet is a very good thing to have. No one argues that. The point is that serious accidents are very rare. People seem a lot less likely to ride a bike if they need to wear a helmet—I wear a helmet 95% of the time and I do not understand why—and the health benefits from cycling far outweigh the risks. The article even says: "Helmet proponents are right about one thing: If you're in a serious accident, then wearing a helmet makes the odds of a head injury significantly lower — by somewhere between 15 and 40 percent." > The article also states that walking is no more dangerous than riding a bike, though physics disagrees. I believe that is because stats are by "per kilometre travelled" (at least the 2012 British study). People usually bike longer distances than they walk. Another alternative is a https://hovding.se/ https://hovding.se/. A lot of people in Stockholm wear one, but they are quite expensive.

teniutza 8y ago

My problem with biking during the (work)day is the sweating. I'm all for getting the exercise but 1) I don't have a shower at the office and 2) my co-workers wouldn't really like me smelling like a football team. I think it really depends on weather conditions, location and distance.

v_lisivka 8y ago
Take shower right before the ride.
Shivetya 8y ago
The common joke about buying a motorcycle is that "buy honey I will save money on gas" but it suffers the same issues for most that bicycles and scooters have which you mentioned. This isn't about cities not favoring alternate modes of transportation but the realities of our daily lives. From distance to job, some time cause by having to change employers, to have so many things to do and little time to get them done. So once you start adding on the weather, the needs to carry stuff, or changes to your schedule, alternate modes quickly fall by the way side. my issue with escooters is not the tech but the items highlighted in the article but I am not nearly as forgiving. I am not sure I want them in the bike lane and you know someone will ride on sidewalks. throw in no helmets or enforcement of requirements for one and its a recipe to hurt both riders and pedestrians. plus when people don't own it they don't respect it. not for all people but there are more than enough who just act out wrongly. there are stories of people dumping them in rivers, dumpsters, and even just breaking them. In a perfect society...
emj 8y ago
That depends on you commute I guess, I spend about 50 minutes on a bicycle, and it's enough to just have a change of clothes, but I do shower before riding a bicycle and wear clean clothes after the bike ride.
bryanlarsen 8y ago
Body odour is caused by the bacteria that colonize your sweat. By taking a shower just before you leave, you knock those bacteria back far enough to give you quite a few stink-free hours so that you should be able to make it through the work day. Secondly, make sure you wear natural fabrics. Lycra and polyster and all of the artificial fabrics stink a lot worse than cotton or wool.

collyw 8y ago

> Also, it runs well on ice and in 20 cm of snow when winter commuting. That's the one time when I won't use my bike. Rain worries me as the rim brakes on my city get really weak, so I slow down a fair bit, but I am scared on snow and ice. Fortunately we don't get much where I live.