6 ms·

Its been really interesting for me to observe this re-focus on older technology, having been involved in the retro computing scene for the last few decades .. i

by mmjaa 8y ago

Its been really interesting for me to observe this re-focus on older technology, having been involved in the retro computing scene for the last few decades .. it has grown and grown, to the point where there are now titles being released for machines in the 80's that are nowhere like what our expectations were, back in the day. We have titles on some systems that are simply mind-blowing these days, in comparison. My favourite 80's system, the Oric-1/Atmos range of computers, has even gotten a few re-designs as well: The Oric-1/Atmos machines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric The SuperOric: http://andre.cheramy.net/super/hardsuper.htm http://andre.cheramy.net/super/hardsuper.htm The AtmoStrat: http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?t=1692 http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?t=1692 -and- http://oric.club/atmostrat http://oric.club/atmostrat The Twilighte expansion: http://orix.oric.org http://orix.oric.org (^^ named in honour of one of the best programmers for the Oric systems that ever lived...) One wonders whether or not we won't see, in a few short years time, some sort of return to the retro-computing ethos of simpler computers, more easily maintained by their interested users, for more advanced tasks. I could imagine, for example, building an Internet capable suite of software for Atmos machines equipped with the Twilighte card, and do away with (for example) using my MacBook Pro for email/casual news reading. The idea of moving to a less powerful architecture for the most common daily tasks, as perverse as it sounds, really appeals to me. There's no reason I couldn't use the same machine as a Twitter client, also...

hansjorg 8y ago
> We have titles on some systems that are simply mind-blowing these days, in comparison. Sounds interesting, could you name any of these?
- mmjaa 8y ago
  I sure can! Check out this great collection of games for the Oric-1/Atmos, released in the 21st Century, which nevertheless would have blown several thousand users' minds if they had've been released in the 80's. Titles such as this were never even dreamed of back in the day - yet here we are, in the 21st Century, and the amazing titles just keep coming: http://www.defence-force.org/index.php?page=games http://www.defence-force.org/index.php?page=games For a bonus, check out anything published by Twilighte in the Oric archives: https://www.oric.org/index.php?page=software&fille=softwaresearch https://www.oric.org/index.php?page=software&fille=softwares... .. he was (RIP, fuck cancer) one of the greatest Oric developers of all times, and the inspiration he set off in the community over 15 years ago has shown no signs of dying out .. in fact, we keep getting stuff on this platform 'as a tribute to Twilighte', 5 years after his passing .. EDIT: a recent example I thought worth mentioning - Twi's unfinished O-Type project, I link here to a mid-thread demo video: http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=345&hilit=o+type&start=45 http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=345&hili... Anyone who was ever an Oric user is bound to watch that video and go "WTF, I had no idea the Oric could do that..." Graphics and Music far beyond what we considered a norm back in the day. Simply mind-blowing.
  - hansjorg 8y ago
    Never heard of the Oric before. Very interesting, thanks.
    - Annatar 8y ago
      It’s a 1980’s British computer manufactured into the early 1990’s, was fairly popular in France.
digi_owl 8y ago
I wonder if there are two reasons: 1. there is a generation coming to age now that never got to know these computers first hand. 2. More and more "computers" are getting locked down, supposedly for our own good. Even FOSS is bitten by this bug.
- mmjaa 8y ago
  Could be both, I think.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  80’s computers are also much simpler both in hardware and in software. You can actually fix a computer beyond say redoing caps on a motherboard and more importantly you can fix it in a lot of creative ways for example if you have a buggy IO chip you can bypass it, and while you lose some functionality it will work. The software is also much simpler both in concepts/design and implementation due to the limits of the hardware. I think this make it much more approachable to many people as a hobby.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  I’m old enough to have used everything from a ZX81 onwards. The appeal used to be the sheer excirement of having a relatively simple machine do clever thinga in a way that felt open and which promoted imagination - a bit like Lego, but in code. They encouraged you to get involved, learn, and have a go. Modern systems can do a lot more, but the cost of entry in money and especially time is so much higher. They’re more like closed appliances optimised for consuming experiences created by others than playpens for creating your own experiences. The play and imagination element has largely disappeared from modern computing. Most experiences are trying to sell you something, and if you make something new you’re supposed to sell it - and sell it hard - too. Even FOSS projects are measured mostly by stars and forks and not by fun and enjoyment. IMO the nostalgia for old hardware can’t recreate the culture that surrounded it. It might be more interesting to design new software that has more of that just-for-fun feel to it - although it’s not obvious what that would look like today.
  - mmjaa 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
codetrotter 8y ago
Speaking of people making new games for old platforms I just came across an Atari 2600 demake of Unreal Tournament on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/8q238x/about_to_release_a_game_for_a_40_year_old_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/8q238x/about_to_re... Unlike the ones you mentioned it’s not mind blowing but it’s still neat and I figured you might be interested in knowing about it since you are interested in these things.
- mmjaa 8y ago
  Definitely - thanks for the kind thoughts. This is precisely the sort of thing that motivates me to write assembly code again. ;) In fact, a couple of the more elite Oric hackers are working on a Wolfenstein-like release for the Oric .. that is going to be amazing when it happens.
32bitkid 8y ago
I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot, myself. Growing up, I never had access to a c64—we had a pcjr at home and apple 2e at elementary school—but I am, now as an adult, really interested in these types of projects and could easily see myself picking one up. What intrigued me though is two fold: one, I find myself also remembering my father when I was growing up, he was not interested in computers, they were more or less just a tool to get a job done, but he loved cars. He had a VW beetle, late 50s early 60s model (though they didn’t change much) and he would tear it down, rebuild the engine, do whatever. But I mean honestly, I can’t see much difference between what he was doing then, and what I am doing now (building a home-brew Micro8088). In fact, probably for a lot of the same reasons... There is something about that era of computing, I can hold a lot what is going on in my head and there are very few abstractions between myself and the machine. The limitations of the architecture inspire creativity and doing things “the wrong way”, but in a way you can gain a more significant understanding of the underlying system. But, part of that is just nostaligia, and I imagine if i could time travel back and have a beer with my dad over his car, he’d probably say something very similar about the lack of fuel injection computers and the simiplicity of a two stroke engine... And secondly, and this isn’t intended to be a scoff at “millennials”, quite the opppsite actually, I wonder what the current generation will look back on as this level of “things were simpler then”-retrospection. Because I’m sure that my dad never thought that I would look back on the 8088s and z80s of my youth as a manifestation of “simplicity”. So, what am I not seeing about my present?

by mmjaa 8y ago

hansjorg 8y ago

> We have titles on some systems that are simply mind-blowing these days, in comparison. Sounds interesting, could you name any of these?

mmjaa 8y ago
I sure can! Check out this great collection of games for the Oric-1/Atmos, released in the 21st Century, which nevertheless would have blown several thousand users' minds if they had've been released in the 80's. Titles such as this were never even dreamed of back in the day - yet here we are, in the 21st Century, and the amazing titles just keep coming: http://www.defence-force.org/index.php?page=games http://www.defence-force.org/index.php?page=games For a bonus, check out anything published by Twilighte in the Oric archives: https://www.oric.org/index.php?page=software&fille=softwaresearch https://www.oric.org/index.php?page=software&fille=softwares... .. he was (RIP, fuck cancer) one of the greatest Oric developers of all times, and the inspiration he set off in the community over 15 years ago has shown no signs of dying out .. in fact, we keep getting stuff on this platform 'as a tribute to Twilighte', 5 years after his passing .. EDIT: a recent example I thought worth mentioning - Twi's unfinished O-Type project, I link here to a mid-thread demo video: http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=345&hilit=o+type&start=45 http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=345&hili... Anyone who was ever an Oric user is bound to watch that video and go "WTF, I had no idea the Oric could do that..." Graphics and Music far beyond what we considered a norm back in the day. Simply mind-blowing.
- hansjorg 8y ago
  Never heard of the Oric before. Very interesting, thanks.
  - Annatar 8y ago
    It’s a 1980’s British computer manufactured into the early 1990’s, was fairly popular in France.

digi_owl 8y ago

I wonder if there are two reasons: 1. there is a generation coming to age now that never got to know these computers first hand. 2. More and more "computers" are getting locked down, supposedly for our own good. Even FOSS is bitten by this bug.

mmjaa 8y ago
Could be both, I think.
dogma1138 8y ago
80’s computers are also much simpler both in hardware and in software. You can actually fix a computer beyond say redoing caps on a motherboard and more importantly you can fix it in a lot of creative ways for example if you have a buggy IO chip you can bypass it, and while you lose some functionality it will work. The software is also much simpler both in concepts/design and implementation due to the limits of the hardware. I think this make it much more approachable to many people as a hobby.
TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
I’m old enough to have used everything from a ZX81 onwards. The appeal used to be the sheer excirement of having a relatively simple machine do clever thinga in a way that felt open and which promoted imagination - a bit like Lego, but in code. They encouraged you to get involved, learn, and have a go. Modern systems can do a lot more, but the cost of entry in money and especially time is so much higher. They’re more like closed appliances optimised for consuming experiences created by others than playpens for creating your own experiences. The play and imagination element has largely disappeared from modern computing. Most experiences are trying to sell you something, and if you make something new you’re supposed to sell it - and sell it hard - too. Even FOSS projects are measured mostly by stars and forks and not by fun and enjoyment. IMO the nostalgia for old hardware can’t recreate the culture that surrounded it. It might be more interesting to design new software that has more of that just-for-fun feel to it - although it’s not obvious what that would look like today.
- mmjaa 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

codetrotter 8y ago

Speaking of people making new games for old platforms I just came across an Atari 2600 demake of Unreal Tournament on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/8q238x/about_to_release_a_game_for_a_40_year_old_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/8q238x/about_to_re... Unlike the ones you mentioned it’s not mind blowing but it’s still neat and I figured you might be interested in knowing about it since you are interested in these things.

mmjaa 8y ago
Definitely - thanks for the kind thoughts. This is precisely the sort of thing that motivates me to write assembly code again. ;) In fact, a couple of the more elite Oric hackers are working on a Wolfenstein-like release for the Oric .. that is going to be amazing when it happens.

32bitkid 8y ago

I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot, myself. Growing up, I never had access to a c64—we had a pcjr at home and apple 2e at elementary school—but I am, now as an adult, really interested in these types of projects and could easily see myself picking one up. What intrigued me though is two fold: one, I find myself also remembering my father when I was growing up, he was not interested in computers, they were more or less just a tool to get a job done, but he loved cars. He had a VW beetle, late 50s early 60s model (though they didn’t change much) and he would tear it down, rebuild the engine, do whatever. But I mean honestly, I can’t see much difference between what he was doing then, and what I am doing now (building a home-brew Micro8088). In fact, probably for a lot of the same reasons... There is something about that era of computing, I can hold a lot what is going on in my head and there are very few abstractions between myself and the machine. The limitations of the architecture inspire creativity and doing things “the wrong way”, but in a way you can gain a more significant understanding of the underlying system. But, part of that is just nostaligia, and I imagine if i could time travel back and have a beer with my dad over his car, he’d probably say something very similar about the lack of fuel injection computers and the simiplicity of a two stroke engine... And secondly, and this isn’t intended to be a scoff at “millennials”, quite the opppsite actually, I wonder what the current generation will look back on as this level of “things were simpler then”-retrospection. Because I’m sure that my dad never thought that I would look back on the 8088s and z80s of my youth as a manifestation of “simplicity”. So, what am I not seeing about my present?