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> It is waaaay more efficient for these to be fixed by an engineer working not in their spare time, but as their full-time job. You miss the possibility of sim

> It is waaaay more efficient for these to be fixed by an engineer working not in their spare time, but as their full-time job. You miss the possibility of simply offering to pay a developer with the relevant expertise to fix one of these bugs for you. I can tell you from experience that there are FLOSS developers out there with sufficient expertise and professionalism to do this.

afarrell 8y ago
If I'm running an enterprise, perhaps then I can budget enough time and money to communicate about and pay for that and deal with the uncertainty inherent in software schedules. In my personal life...that sounds like a stressor that I'd be willing to pay money to avoid.
- TaylorAlexander 8y ago
  Sure but this sounds like an opportunity for something like “Uber for FLOSS support.” Or perhaps it would be more like OkCupid. But you could pay money and your FLOSS problems get researched and solved for you by a developer who is experienced in this area. In practice I can see this as a forum where people make minimal effort posts and skilled people give them quality support. Just as I was forming the previous sentence I realize Stack Overflow and Reddit kind of do this. Maybe it would just be nice if people found a good way to add payment to the process. Anyway, it’s not as nice as not having the bugs in the first place, but FLOSS has other advantages. There will continue to be people who choose commercially supported software, but the more we can close the gap on quality with FLOSS the better.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    The issue is that even if he managed to find a good developer to pay to improve some FLOSS software, it would come out very expensive in the end, first because the UI frameworks & libraries you get in the Linux world are nowhere near what you get on macOS, so the developer will require more time, and also because you won’t be selling that software later on to make any kind of money back since it’s FLOSS, and even when it’s proprietary and not FLOSS, the potential market for Linux software (let alone paid Linux software) is very small.
    - justinclift 8y ago
      Hmmm, that seems to forget that there's a large amount of Open Source software available on macOS too. :) With the UI frameworks and libraries, what's your take on things like Qt then, which is cross platform and pretty decent for developers? At least the C++ ones anyway. :)
    - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
      Yes but keep in mind people who work on FLOSS are interested in it for more than money, so the person being paid may be willing to work for a little less (or invest more time) knowing that the work that they do is helping FLOSS. So both people can share the cost burden here. We are talking about two people passionate about FLOSS that one is using it despite the problems (and willing to pay) and one has taken it upon themselves to learn how to fix it.
      - killjoywashere 8y ago
        I could be wrong here, but as I recall, there's a psychological effect where an offer of money can reduce the value a developer assigns to their own at-will effort because it shifts the paradigm from noble to economic ends.
  - jcrben 8y ago
    This has existed for a while: https://www.bountysource.com/ https://www.bountysource.com/ It hasn't been a tremendous success story so far - but these things take time.
    - jancsika 8y ago
      That's different. I'm talking about participating as a user in a FLOSS mailing list, getting to know the people involved, then asking one of the devs if they can fix a bug or add a feature for you in exchange for money.
- droidist2 8y ago
  > In my personal life...that sounds like a stressor that I'd be willing to pay money to avoid. Exactly, and a single citizen typically doesn't have the means to commission a software project, or even non-trivial fixes to an existing software project.
user5994461 8y ago
Expect 500 euros per day for a cheap developer in Eastern Europe. Maybe similar for Indian outsourcing or Latin American. Expect over a 1000 dollars per day for a qualified developer in a first world location. Point being. No individual can pay that much and the develop should rather get a day job unless the software has high earning potential.
- progval 8y ago
  > No individual can pay that much and the develop should rather get a day job You could create a cooperative of users that hires one or two developers to work for all of them.
  - shoo 8y ago
    this is probably not too dissimilar from starting a business that grows a collection of users willing to pay fees to receive custom patches / support for the open source software
- terragon 8y ago
  Which developer in a first world country has 30k a month in salary? $1000 a day is beyond ridiculous!
  - ghaff 8y ago
    For a qualified contractor? $100 per billable hour is extremely reasonable. They're not on the clock all the time. When I did consulting work (not writing software but tech-related) I charged way more than that although it was usually based on jobs rather than hours. ADDED: And, if you're contracting through a larger firm, they're adding various overheads associated with managing the project, etc.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    They are standard rates for contracting and outsourcing firms. 500 euro a day is about 100k a year, accounting for 200 work days in a year. Remove the margin of the firm, pension, healthcare, sick leave, company taxes, office costs, benefits... and what's left is the gross salary.

afarrell 8y ago

If I'm running an enterprise, perhaps then I can budget enough time and money to communicate about and pay for that and deal with the uncertainty inherent in software schedules. In my personal life...that sounds like a stressor that I'd be willing to pay money to avoid.

TaylorAlexander 8y ago
Sure but this sounds like an opportunity for something like “Uber for FLOSS support.” Or perhaps it would be more like OkCupid. But you could pay money and your FLOSS problems get researched and solved for you by a developer who is experienced in this area. In practice I can see this as a forum where people make minimal effort posts and skilled people give them quality support. Just as I was forming the previous sentence I realize Stack Overflow and Reddit kind of do this. Maybe it would just be nice if people found a good way to add payment to the process. Anyway, it’s not as nice as not having the bugs in the first place, but FLOSS has other advantages. There will continue to be people who choose commercially supported software, but the more we can close the gap on quality with FLOSS the better.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  The issue is that even if he managed to find a good developer to pay to improve some FLOSS software, it would come out very expensive in the end, first because the UI frameworks & libraries you get in the Linux world are nowhere near what you get on macOS, so the developer will require more time, and also because you won’t be selling that software later on to make any kind of money back since it’s FLOSS, and even when it’s proprietary and not FLOSS, the potential market for Linux software (let alone paid Linux software) is very small.
  - justinclift 8y ago
    Hmmm, that seems to forget that there's a large amount of Open Source software available on macOS too. :) With the UI frameworks and libraries, what's your take on things like Qt then, which is cross platform and pretty decent for developers? At least the C++ ones anyway. :)
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    Yes but keep in mind people who work on FLOSS are interested in it for more than money, so the person being paid may be willing to work for a little less (or invest more time) knowing that the work that they do is helping FLOSS. So both people can share the cost burden here. We are talking about two people passionate about FLOSS that one is using it despite the problems (and willing to pay) and one has taken it upon themselves to learn how to fix it.
    - killjoywashere 8y ago
      I could be wrong here, but as I recall, there's a psychological effect where an offer of money can reduce the value a developer assigns to their own at-will effort because it shifts the paradigm from noble to economic ends.
- jcrben 8y ago
  This has existed for a while: https://www.bountysource.com/ https://www.bountysource.com/ It hasn't been a tremendous success story so far - but these things take time.
  - jancsika 8y ago
    That's different. I'm talking about participating as a user in a FLOSS mailing list, getting to know the people involved, then asking one of the devs if they can fix a bug or add a feature for you in exchange for money.
droidist2 8y ago
> In my personal life...that sounds like a stressor that I'd be willing to pay money to avoid. Exactly, and a single citizen typically doesn't have the means to commission a software project, or even non-trivial fixes to an existing software project.

user5994461 8y ago

Expect 500 euros per day for a cheap developer in Eastern Europe. Maybe similar for Indian outsourcing or Latin American. Expect over a 1000 dollars per day for a qualified developer in a first world location. Point being. No individual can pay that much and the develop should rather get a day job unless the software has high earning potential.

progval 8y ago
> No individual can pay that much and the develop should rather get a day job You could create a cooperative of users that hires one or two developers to work for all of them.
- shoo 8y ago
  this is probably not too dissimilar from starting a business that grows a collection of users willing to pay fees to receive custom patches / support for the open source software
terragon 8y ago
Which developer in a first world country has 30k a month in salary? $1000 a day is beyond ridiculous!
- ghaff 8y ago
  For a qualified contractor? $100 per billable hour is extremely reasonable. They're not on the clock all the time. When I did consulting work (not writing software but tech-related) I charged way more than that although it was usually based on jobs rather than hours. ADDED: And, if you're contracting through a larger firm, they're adding various overheads associated with managing the project, etc.
- user5994461 8y ago
  They are standard rates for contracting and outsourcing firms. 500 euro a day is about 100k a year, accounting for 200 work days in a year. Remove the margin of the firm, pension, healthcare, sick leave, company taxes, office costs, benefits... and what's left is the gross salary.