4 ms·

And there are also many of us put in situations of reviewing resumes and interviewing that don't have college experience who don't care what school you went to,

And there are also many of us put in situations of reviewing resumes and interviewing that don't have college experience who don't care what school you went to, or if you even did. Going to college definitely makes things easier, and I don't advise people to take the path I did but there are paths other than college that still work well for this industry.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago
You're talking past the point. The original comment was: > I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience. > ... employers simply stop caring about education level. The reason he was not asked about education is not necessarily because 'employers by and large don't care', but rather that 'employers that do care about education would've already filtered him out after seeing the resume'. The interviews from employers that do care about education would never materialize in the first place. This is not a judgment about the role of education and pedigree, but rather pointing out that any effect would have likely played out in the resume stage.
- gmjosack 8y ago
  Thanks for clarifying your point, I think that makes a lot of sense. Thankfully for me I consider it a positive selection bias as I wouldn't want to work for a company/manager with such insular hiring criteria. Unfortunately it does make it harder for people just getting started in their career.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    Since you mention it, people who have degrees and people who don't have degrees usually work in different companies. Any programmer is unlikely to experience both sides of the coin.
    - gmjosack 8y ago
      I find people with college experience are much more likely to be biased against people without than vice versa. But that is just my anecdotal experience. Google and Dropbox definitely had more people with degrees but a decent amount of people without. The hiring pipelines were more biased towards recruiting new grads out of good schools but we never turned down solid people with good experience. I generally like to work with people, and at places, that value your contributions and experience rather than your credentials. I've been lucky enough to find that in every place I've worked. I can't say my experience has been one of only working with people without degrees. I've worked with amazing engineers with and without degrees and don't put much stock in the degree itself.
      - user5994461 8y ago
        Well, it takes a degree or 5 years of relevant experience to enter the front door. Better have both. I wouldn't call it a bias, companies have different expectations and needs. At big name, there are a hundred people applying every day, the bar is higher than no degree and/or little experience. There is also the fact that the lack of education puts one at a disadvantage. For instance, I know of co workers who ask questions about complexity, compilers and graphs. It's common for candidates with no formal education to be completely oblivious to these.
        gmjosack 8y ago
        I think it's a bias to assume the candidate won't understand those things or be suitable for the job based on lack of college alone. If you require people to understand complexity, compilers, and graphs to do the job effectively then test for those. I've encountered plenty of people with degrees who similarly didn't understand those concepts. I definitely agree that lack of education is a disadvantage, it just means you have to start a different way. that could mean your first few years is coming in through a side door before you start getting relevant experience.
        user5994461 8y ago
        I think we both agree. The lack of degree will mean years of bad jobs and learning the hard way though practice, before it can be compensated. It's years of struggling on the job, instead of in the college.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago

You're talking past the point. The original comment was: > I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience. > ... employers simply stop caring about education level. The reason he was not asked about education is not necessarily because 'employers by and large don't care', but rather that 'employers that do care about education would've already filtered him out after seeing the resume'. The interviews from employers that do care about education would never materialize in the first place. This is not a judgment about the role of education and pedigree, but rather pointing out that any effect would have likely played out in the resume stage.

gmjosack 8y ago
Thanks for clarifying your point, I think that makes a lot of sense. Thankfully for me I consider it a positive selection bias as I wouldn't want to work for a company/manager with such insular hiring criteria. Unfortunately it does make it harder for people just getting started in their career.
- user5994461 8y ago
  Since you mention it, people who have degrees and people who don't have degrees usually work in different companies. Any programmer is unlikely to experience both sides of the coin.
  - gmjosack 8y ago
    I find people with college experience are much more likely to be biased against people without than vice versa. But that is just my anecdotal experience. Google and Dropbox definitely had more people with degrees but a decent amount of people without. The hiring pipelines were more biased towards recruiting new grads out of good schools but we never turned down solid people with good experience. I generally like to work with people, and at places, that value your contributions and experience rather than your credentials. I've been lucky enough to find that in every place I've worked. I can't say my experience has been one of only working with people without degrees. I've worked with amazing engineers with and without degrees and don't put much stock in the degree itself.
    - user5994461 8y ago
      Well, it takes a degree or 5 years of relevant experience to enter the front door. Better have both. I wouldn't call it a bias, companies have different expectations and needs. At big name, there are a hundred people applying every day, the bar is higher than no degree and/or little experience. There is also the fact that the lack of education puts one at a disadvantage. For instance, I know of co workers who ask questions about complexity, compilers and graphs. It's common for candidates with no formal education to be completely oblivious to these.
      - gmjosack 8y ago
        I think it's a bias to assume the candidate won't understand those things or be suitable for the job based on lack of college alone. If you require people to understand complexity, compilers, and graphs to do the job effectively then test for those. I've encountered plenty of people with degrees who similarly didn't understand those concepts. I definitely agree that lack of education is a disadvantage, it just means you have to start a different way. that could mean your first few years is coming in through a side door before you start getting relevant experience.
        user5994461 8y ago
        I think we both agree. The lack of degree will mean years of bad jobs and learning the hard way though practice, before it can be compensated. It's years of struggling on the job, instead of in the college.