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Unless companies like Tesla stop worrying about being the next "Great American Industry" and start focusing on real world problems and their solutions. If Tesl

Unless companies like Tesla stop worrying about being the next "Great American Industry" and start focusing on real world problems and their solutions. If Tesla could develop a network of self driving buses, that would have far greater reach and impact than trying to solve how to make a private network for charging and all case-considered self-driving system for asshole-mobiles. Not that Tesla cars aren't amazing, but they seem like a giant waste of resources for self-centered people. Not to mention in situations like self-driving, buses have completely predictable paths and because of that, it's much easier to optimize for corner cases to work toward a general solution. With the exception of the handicapped, people don't really need cars. Bikes/e-bikes work great for any type of commute <30 miles and hauling cargo <100 lbs with a trailer. Electric skateboards are also great if you have little to carry and <12 miles to go. Beyond that, self-driving delivery fleets in the vain of UPS and buses make sense. There's really no valid reason to use a car unless you're an invalid. But guys like Elon Musk are happy to burn the earth to the ground to terraform Mars instead of working on how to terraform places like Arizona or Pakistan because it looks better to them on paper. Or so it would seem.

morsch 8y ago
Divide your miles by 10 and they seem about right.
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
Bikes/e-bikes work great for any type of commute... Only when they aren't. Winter means snow, ice, and below zero temperatures and my hands simply can't handle the extra cold from the wind. I'm not handicapped and do walk during the winter, but tend to take the bus on the very rainy and very cold days despite dressing for the weather. let alone the fact that I'm no where near skilled enough with a bicycle to feel safe riding on 2inches of ice - regardless of studded tires. Summers have really strong sun, making folks deceptively warm and sweaty. I dont' know about your job, but most of mine want me to be clean and not smell of sweat when I arrive. I always have the chance of cargo: I walk to the grocery store most times. (I am not legal to drive in my present country). When I lived in Indiana, there were not only problems with actual weather, but then I ran into route problems. The easiest route for commutes was major roads, but unfortunately most of those roads aren't built for people to ride bikes or walk. In some places, doing either activity on those roads meant you got stopped by the cops and told to find another path to take. You were putting cars and yourself at risk using that road. Luckily, there are more paths for such things here. Not only that, but e-bikes have a limited range in most circumstances. Higher-end ones go far enough, but some of the cheaper models risk losing power at the higher ends. By the time most e-bikes has power to spare on those commutes, here they might be legally a scooter. I do agree with having a robust public transportation system, however. That actually soves the issues with the bikes, but bikes alone seem won't work.
- makewavesnotwar 8y ago
  So first off, I love buses as a means of transportation and in any situation where biking would be unsafe, I would err on the side of caution and use a bus like you suggest so you know, no judgement here, I think that's cool. And yeah, not having bike paths makes it a whole different story. Drivers can be very irresponsible regarding the safety of cyclists (especially during inclement weather). I would personally be very weary if I had to bike exclusively on the street. Where I live, I can get pretty much everywhere without touching a single street thanks to all the dedicated multi-use / bike paths. In fact, the reason I purchased a e-bike and decided to try to go car free was the installation of a bike path that parallels the major highway here. But all of the bike paths here are a response to how many people here are cyclists and the dedication of the community to take steps to fight climate change/pollution. Though places like Indiana may never have a good bike system without some sort of federal intervention if they are really that anti-biking, but there are much better places to live if you like to bike. Riding around the Denver/Boulder metro area is an absolute hoot and there are places that are even more bike friendly. Living in Colorado I bike to commute in both freezing conditions and 100+ degree weather conditions without catching a sweat on my e-bike. I'm not some hyper fit guy, I've got a dad-bod and long hair (along with a beard at the moment) and I generally run warm. But after I settled on trying to use the e-bike I got as my primary means of transportation, I started solving some of the problems you discuss. For instance during the winter, I wear a black down jacket (with a massive backpack that keeps my back extra toasty), a insulated black balaclava with ski goggles, ski gloves if it's extra cold (otherwise just some simple neoprene gloves), long johns and thick wool socks and to combat the wind I ride with my hands in my jacket pockets (though that's admittedly only possible because of the long open curves of the bike path and I never have to make any surprise emergency stops). You might think that I'd be sweating like crazy in all of that, but you have to remember, with an e-bike, my effort for pedaling is similar to that of riding a beach cruiser down a flat boardwalk with a tailwind regardless of wind, hills or cargo and my layering is generally designed to keep me comfortable. At most I will unzip my coat to ventilate my torso. And when I get to my destination, I usually just stop off at some restroom to slip off my long johns - sometimes I'll also switch my shirt. Also on the note of snow, while I wouldn't recommend it as it's super sketchy and totally unsafe, I've found that getting around in even a few inches of snow on the ground is weirdly doable with an e-bike if you have it in throttle-only mode. The reason being that you can keep your body still and work on maintaining your balance while letting the motor do all the work. It works so well because you don't have to worry about unpredictable tire slippage causing you to throw your weight. An e-bike tire can slip all it wants and I'm still just going to be standing over my bike in a track stand while maneuvering the front tire. Plus with mountain bike tire, you get better traction on snow or mud so it works even better than my track bike. During the summer, I wear white UPF rated compression tights under highly breathable hybrid shorts and a UPF t-shirt. I wear white nylon gloves, and a thin moisture wicking white balaclava with sunglasses. Do I look like a kook? Sure. I get a lot of weird looks. But I don't mind, the white outfit not only protects me from sun burns, it increases the evaporative cooling of my sweat as well as reflecting most of the light so my skin isn't really being heated by direct radiation. The result is I can get around quite comfortably regardless of the heat outside. And during the summer, it's even easier to carry an extra shirt or pair of short to switch to into a non-ninja-esque outfit. Plus, despite the weirdo factor, it's at least a little fun to go into a bathroom and come out wearing tights like Superman. Regarding range, that's one of the cool thing about e-bikes, the one I bought for $1300 and most bikes I've seen over $1200 have a battery that can be unlocked and easily removed so I just bring the charger with me (not much larger than a power brick for a gaming laptop), stick the battery in my bag and then just plug it in where ever I'm stopping. The battery fully charges in 4 hours so assuming I don't need to go more than ~25 miles in a 5 hour window, the e-bike works perfect. (Though I will say that there definitely is a big power output drop off when the battery gets under 30% but I rarely get mine under 40%) The big thing bikes have over buses is convenience and price. Much like a car, you can anywhere you want and because of the speeds (up to 28 mph for class 3 or 20 mph for class 2 motors) my commutes are generally faster than by bus, and I'd say on average, only 40-50% slower than taking a car which might sound high, but that's usually only an extra 10-15 minutes plus I get the fun of riding a bike around. Not to mention in areas where finding parking is difficult, riding a bike can actually end up being faster than driving. Buses are definitely part of the equation, which was the point of my original comment, but that shouldn't negate bikes as a preferable means of transportation. Especially if you have a situation in which you can get away with commuting by traditional bike rather than an e-bike. They're the most energy efficient standard mode of transportation available to my knowledge. https://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of-transportation-ranked-by-mpg/ https://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of...
EpicEng 8y ago
>With the exception of the handicapped, people don't really need cars. What country do you live in? We don't all live in downtown SF. In fact, most of us don't. We live outside the city and drive 20 miles to get to work (you're nuts if you think most people are going to spend hours commuting 60 miles on a bicycle every day). And there are no bike Lanes, let alone paths And it snows. >There's really no valid reason to use a car unless you're an invalid. You're on another planet. It's interesting that you talk about finding practical soltutions to "real problems" yet seem to lack any notion of what the real problems are.
- OnMyPhone 8y ago
  Anytime I read posts like that, I just assume they have never been to a place that requires a car to get somewhere within a decent amount of time or it's been so long that they've forgotten. Yeah, I could get an e-bike, I just have to make 5x+ the trips to the store since I doubt it could hold what I can get in 1 trip now. How would I drive 20 miles one way to work in the winter when there is zero public transportation here? There's no bike lanes out here, and taking an e-bike on the road will eventually get you killed, that's if you can stand driving 40 miles round trip in the snow / rain 5 days of the week. I guess I can move, (as been suggested before lol) but now there's a lot of new problems with that that an e-bike won't touch. It just isn't feasible for most people yet. Hopefully sometime soon, but definitely not right now.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    Pretty much. I grew up in rural IL, good luck with your e-bikes.

morsch 8y ago

Divide your miles by 10 and they seem about right.

Broken_Hippo 8y ago

Bikes/e-bikes work great for any type of commute... Only when they aren't. Winter means snow, ice, and below zero temperatures and my hands simply can't handle the extra cold from the wind. I'm not handicapped and do walk during the winter, but tend to take the bus on the very rainy and very cold days despite dressing for the weather. let alone the fact that I'm no where near skilled enough with a bicycle to feel safe riding on 2inches of ice - regardless of studded tires. Summers have really strong sun, making folks deceptively warm and sweaty. I dont' know about your job, but most of mine want me to be clean and not smell of sweat when I arrive. I always have the chance of cargo: I walk to the grocery store most times. (I am not legal to drive in my present country). When I lived in Indiana, there were not only problems with actual weather, but then I ran into route problems. The easiest route for commutes was major roads, but unfortunately most of those roads aren't built for people to ride bikes or walk. In some places, doing either activity on those roads meant you got stopped by the cops and told to find another path to take. You were putting cars and yourself at risk using that road. Luckily, there are more paths for such things here. Not only that, but e-bikes have a limited range in most circumstances. Higher-end ones go far enough, but some of the cheaper models risk losing power at the higher ends. By the time most e-bikes has power to spare on those commutes, here they might be legally a scooter. I do agree with having a robust public transportation system, however. That actually soves the issues with the bikes, but bikes alone seem won't work.

makewavesnotwar 8y ago
So first off, I love buses as a means of transportation and in any situation where biking would be unsafe, I would err on the side of caution and use a bus like you suggest so you know, no judgement here, I think that's cool. And yeah, not having bike paths makes it a whole different story. Drivers can be very irresponsible regarding the safety of cyclists (especially during inclement weather). I would personally be very weary if I had to bike exclusively on the street. Where I live, I can get pretty much everywhere without touching a single street thanks to all the dedicated multi-use / bike paths. In fact, the reason I purchased a e-bike and decided to try to go car free was the installation of a bike path that parallels the major highway here. But all of the bike paths here are a response to how many people here are cyclists and the dedication of the community to take steps to fight climate change/pollution. Though places like Indiana may never have a good bike system without some sort of federal intervention if they are really that anti-biking, but there are much better places to live if you like to bike. Riding around the Denver/Boulder metro area is an absolute hoot and there are places that are even more bike friendly. Living in Colorado I bike to commute in both freezing conditions and 100+ degree weather conditions without catching a sweat on my e-bike. I'm not some hyper fit guy, I've got a dad-bod and long hair (along with a beard at the moment) and I generally run warm. But after I settled on trying to use the e-bike I got as my primary means of transportation, I started solving some of the problems you discuss. For instance during the winter, I wear a black down jacket (with a massive backpack that keeps my back extra toasty), a insulated black balaclava with ski goggles, ski gloves if it's extra cold (otherwise just some simple neoprene gloves), long johns and thick wool socks and to combat the wind I ride with my hands in my jacket pockets (though that's admittedly only possible because of the long open curves of the bike path and I never have to make any surprise emergency stops). You might think that I'd be sweating like crazy in all of that, but you have to remember, with an e-bike, my effort for pedaling is similar to that of riding a beach cruiser down a flat boardwalk with a tailwind regardless of wind, hills or cargo and my layering is generally designed to keep me comfortable. At most I will unzip my coat to ventilate my torso. And when I get to my destination, I usually just stop off at some restroom to slip off my long johns - sometimes I'll also switch my shirt. Also on the note of snow, while I wouldn't recommend it as it's super sketchy and totally unsafe, I've found that getting around in even a few inches of snow on the ground is weirdly doable with an e-bike if you have it in throttle-only mode. The reason being that you can keep your body still and work on maintaining your balance while letting the motor do all the work. It works so well because you don't have to worry about unpredictable tire slippage causing you to throw your weight. An e-bike tire can slip all it wants and I'm still just going to be standing over my bike in a track stand while maneuvering the front tire. Plus with mountain bike tire, you get better traction on snow or mud so it works even better than my track bike. During the summer, I wear white UPF rated compression tights under highly breathable hybrid shorts and a UPF t-shirt. I wear white nylon gloves, and a thin moisture wicking white balaclava with sunglasses. Do I look like a kook? Sure. I get a lot of weird looks. But I don't mind, the white outfit not only protects me from sun burns, it increases the evaporative cooling of my sweat as well as reflecting most of the light so my skin isn't really being heated by direct radiation. The result is I can get around quite comfortably regardless of the heat outside. And during the summer, it's even easier to carry an extra shirt or pair of short to switch to into a non-ninja-esque outfit. Plus, despite the weirdo factor, it's at least a little fun to go into a bathroom and come out wearing tights like Superman. Regarding range, that's one of the cool thing about e-bikes, the one I bought for $1300 and most bikes I've seen over $1200 have a battery that can be unlocked and easily removed so I just bring the charger with me (not much larger than a power brick for a gaming laptop), stick the battery in my bag and then just plug it in where ever I'm stopping. The battery fully charges in 4 hours so assuming I don't need to go more than ~25 miles in a 5 hour window, the e-bike works perfect. (Though I will say that there definitely is a big power output drop off when the battery gets under 30% but I rarely get mine under 40%) The big thing bikes have over buses is convenience and price. Much like a car, you can anywhere you want and because of the speeds (up to 28 mph for class 3 or 20 mph for class 2 motors) my commutes are generally faster than by bus, and I'd say on average, only 40-50% slower than taking a car which might sound high, but that's usually only an extra 10-15 minutes plus I get the fun of riding a bike around. Not to mention in areas where finding parking is difficult, riding a bike can actually end up being faster than driving. Buses are definitely part of the equation, which was the point of my original comment, but that shouldn't negate bikes as a preferable means of transportation. Especially if you have a situation in which you can get away with commuting by traditional bike rather than an e-bike. They're the most energy efficient standard mode of transportation available to my knowledge. https://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of-transportation-ranked-by-mpg/ https://truecostblog.com/2010/05/27/fuel-efficiency-modes-of...

EpicEng 8y ago

>With the exception of the handicapped, people don't really need cars. What country do you live in? We don't all live in downtown SF. In fact, most of us don't. We live outside the city and drive 20 miles to get to work (you're nuts if you think most people are going to spend hours commuting 60 miles on a bicycle every day). And there are no bike Lanes, let alone paths And it snows. >There's really no valid reason to use a car unless you're an invalid. You're on another planet. It's interesting that you talk about finding practical soltutions to "real problems" yet seem to lack any notion of what the real problems are.

OnMyPhone 8y ago
Anytime I read posts like that, I just assume they have never been to a place that requires a car to get somewhere within a decent amount of time or it's been so long that they've forgotten. Yeah, I could get an e-bike, I just have to make 5x+ the trips to the store since I doubt it could hold what I can get in 1 trip now. How would I drive 20 miles one way to work in the winter when there is zero public transportation here? There's no bike lanes out here, and taking an e-bike on the road will eventually get you killed, that's if you can stand driving 40 miles round trip in the snow / rain 5 days of the week. I guess I can move, (as been suggested before lol) but now there's a lot of new problems with that that an e-bike won't touch. It just isn't feasible for most people yet. Hopefully sometime soon, but definitely not right now.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Pretty much. I grew up in rural IL, good luck with your e-bikes.