4 ms·

And yet national ID cards are still out of the question.

by transfire 8y ago

chirau 8y ago
What's the argument against national IDs?
- mirimir 8y ago
  There's this fantasy in America that, in some existential crisis, one can just go somewhere and start a new life. It's like an understood aspect of the Bill of Rights.
  - cat199 8y ago
    this is somewhat of a gross oversimplificiation. Agreed disappearing is not really possible these days, but there are also philosophical underpinnings about the federal govt being a 'federation of independent states' rather than a distinct authority over-and-above the states, which factors in here, among other things.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      True. But that's the states' rights thing. This is the individual rights thing. The stand that the nation is a federation of individuals. There were diverse individual autarchic influences. From the French (as we all know) and the Russians (blending individualism with collective effort). Similarly, the Religious Society of Friends (albeit involving Christ). And ironically, the Iroquois League. Plus the settler vibe.
- transfire 8y ago
  Every time it comes up in Congress it is shelved or voted down with the same bullshit mantras of how our congressmen are protecting our right to privacy.
  - UncleEntity 8y ago
    My understanding is the states were fighting it. A couple years ago there was a thing that you couldn't get through airport security with an Arizona drivers license but had to go get an ID card that complied with federal rules, not sure what ever happened with that though. My theory is it has something to do with DLs being valid until you're 65 so there's a bunch of old ones floating around without all the fancy modern technology built in but who knows?
    - cat199 8y ago
      > A couple years ago there was a thing that you couldn't get through airport security with an Arizona drivers license but had to go get an ID card that complied with federal rules, not sure what ever happened with that though. This is still a thing, not sure about AZ specifically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act Basically says that if your state doesn't dump DL/ID info into federal databases, and some other requirements, you can't use it for some things federally - and so effectively creates a 'National ID' without overtly doing so.
- Redoubts 8y ago
  That it would lead to a national database that would get used to abridge our rights. But now we have the worst case, where there’s a database but no coherent national identification scheme.

And yet national ID cards are still out of the question.

chirau 8y ago

What's the argument against national IDs?

mirimir 8y ago
There's this fantasy in America that, in some existential crisis, one can just go somewhere and start a new life. It's like an understood aspect of the Bill of Rights.
- cat199 8y ago
  this is somewhat of a gross oversimplificiation. Agreed disappearing is not really possible these days, but there are also philosophical underpinnings about the federal govt being a 'federation of independent states' rather than a distinct authority over-and-above the states, which factors in here, among other things.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    True. But that's the states' rights thing. This is the individual rights thing. The stand that the nation is a federation of individuals. There were diverse individual autarchic influences. From the French (as we all know) and the Russians (blending individualism with collective effort). Similarly, the Religious Society of Friends (albeit involving Christ). And ironically, the Iroquois League. Plus the settler vibe.
transfire 8y ago
Every time it comes up in Congress it is shelved or voted down with the same bullshit mantras of how our congressmen are protecting our right to privacy.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  My understanding is the states were fighting it. A couple years ago there was a thing that you couldn't get through airport security with an Arizona drivers license but had to go get an ID card that complied with federal rules, not sure what ever happened with that though. My theory is it has something to do with DLs being valid until you're 65 so there's a bunch of old ones floating around without all the fancy modern technology built in but who knows?
  - cat199 8y ago
    > A couple years ago there was a thing that you couldn't get through airport security with an Arizona drivers license but had to go get an ID card that complied with federal rules, not sure what ever happened with that though. This is still a thing, not sure about AZ specifically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act Basically says that if your state doesn't dump DL/ID info into federal databases, and some other requirements, you can't use it for some things federally - and so effectively creates a 'National ID' without overtly doing so.
Redoubts 8y ago
That it would lead to a national database that would get used to abridge our rights. But now we have the worst case, where there’s a database but no coherent national identification scheme.