5 ms·

> what is going on in an infinitesimal region around it A "field" is just a name for spooky action at a distance. It's a description, not an explanation. There

> what is going on in an infinitesimal region around it A "field" is just a name for spooky action at a distance. It's a description, not an explanation. There is no mechanical contact, only "locality" of a field. Or are you saying that fields are really mediated by particles... so there is mechanical contact?

sgt101 8y ago
People call these thing gravitons but they are particles in the sense that light and electricity are particle based - which is to say that in the limit it turns out that a discrete particle doesn't describe everything that's happening and some wave like properties in space and time are a good fit too. The particles are sort of like a manifestation or a partial mathematical description of the thing that's underneath. The particle is an excitation of a field - all particles are, so mechanical interactions reduce to fields. The thing to remember is that your intuitive and perceptual apparatus was largely evolved to help you get fruit in a forest, and later to help you catch rabbits and shell fish. The ideas that are obvious are approximations that allow you to navigate the world of the past - but they are not "right".
ealloc 8y ago
Yes, forces transmitted through fields act "at a distance", but is that really "spooky"? Do you think it is "spooky" that if you make a wave at one end of a pond, the wave reaches the other end? I don't. I consider the propagation of waves to be a "local" non-spooky phenomenon. Disturbances in a field propagate through space similarly. A disturbance of the field at a point only affects the value of the field in the immediate spacetime surroundings, just like a water wave. I would call that "local" and non-spooky. Whether or not there is "mechanical contact", whatever that means, is irrelevant. This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity, where the force of gravity was spookily felt instantaneously across space.
- hyperpallium 8y ago
  > A disturbance of the field at a point only affects the value of the field in the immediate spacetime surroundings, just like a water wave. Ok, I see that's local (though not mechanical, as you say). I think a magnetic field (as from a magnet, not a wave) is not local though? So, the transmissiin of modulation is "local", but the field itself is "at a distance"?
  - meikos 8y ago
    When you move the magnet, the field change takes a while to propogate outwards. So, yes also local

sgt101 8y ago

People call these thing gravitons but they are particles in the sense that light and electricity are particle based - which is to say that in the limit it turns out that a discrete particle doesn't describe everything that's happening and some wave like properties in space and time are a good fit too. The particles are sort of like a manifestation or a partial mathematical description of the thing that's underneath. The particle is an excitation of a field - all particles are, so mechanical interactions reduce to fields. The thing to remember is that your intuitive and perceptual apparatus was largely evolved to help you get fruit in a forest, and later to help you catch rabbits and shell fish. The ideas that are obvious are approximations that allow you to navigate the world of the past - but they are not "right".

ealloc 8y ago

Yes, forces transmitted through fields act "at a distance", but is that really "spooky"? Do you think it is "spooky" that if you make a wave at one end of a pond, the wave reaches the other end? I don't. I consider the propagation of waves to be a "local" non-spooky phenomenon. Disturbances in a field propagate through space similarly. A disturbance of the field at a point only affects the value of the field in the immediate spacetime surroundings, just like a water wave. I would call that "local" and non-spooky. Whether or not there is "mechanical contact", whatever that means, is irrelevant. This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity, where the force of gravity was spookily felt instantaneously across space.

hyperpallium 8y ago
> A disturbance of the field at a point only affects the value of the field in the immediate spacetime surroundings, just like a water wave. Ok, I see that's local (though not mechanical, as you say). I think a magnetic field (as from a magnet, not a wave) is not local though? So, the transmissiin of modulation is "local", but the field itself is "at a distance"?
- meikos 8y ago
  When you move the magnet, the field change takes a while to propogate outwards. So, yes also local