12 ms·

That's a really good point - but I think a really big issue is that a lot of programmers (and I don't know why) seem to think that a good User Interface (API, V

by jnoller 16y ago

That's a really good point - but I think a really big issue is that a lot of programmers (and I don't know why) seem to think that a good User Interface (API, Visual, Docs, etc) is just not needed. That; and the attitudes range from "who cares" to downright hostile "if you can't understand it, you're stupid". I say this as a programmer (who spends a lot of time on the "user" facing components), not as a business person. That attitude has to change - I don't care that the business people think hackers are Eloi fit for the slaughter while they are the Morlocks - the intelligent ones. Good business people don't have that attitude, good business and product people do care about scalability, supportability and quality. Those that don't will fail. On the other hand, the constant refrain I hear from people in my own community and profession about making something usable and intuitive just makes me upset. I can't change the broken business people - I can try to make my corner of the world better.

raganwald 16y ago
Interesting that you compare "a lot of programmers" to "good business people." It is no surprise that the programmers fare poorly in comparison. What do you have to say about Good Programmers? Or A Lot of Business People? May I attempt to find common ground between our points of view by suggesting that 90% of programmers have this attitude? And that by the same token, 90% of business people are busy demanding flash web site intros and banners that SCREAM without doing the A/B testing or other quantified analysis to know whether they are generating higher conversions? But your last statement is absolutely spot on: making what we do better is what matters most. Upmod gladly given.
- jnoller 16y ago
  Well, the larger HN community seemed to not take kindly to my comment, which seems odd in and of itself. Regardless, I concur with you - I can't speak to business people directly as it's not my particular domain, but yes - I've seen the same behavior that you have.
wallflower 16y ago
As a software developer who has at times thought that as long as the user interface is functional by the engineering definition that it is good enough, I've found it enlightening and interesting to go to local CHI (Computer Human Interaction) meetings where UX professionals present to one another. Programmers are a commodity but programmers who can understand and create user-friendly interfaces are less of one. http://www.sigchi.org/connect/local-sigs http://www.sigchi.org/connect/local-sigs
- raganwald 16y ago
  Take this a step further and join! I was an active member of ToRCHI for a few years and it was an amazing experience. Alas, it didn't make me a fully functional UX professional or even competent, but it did make me consciously incompetent, and that was valuable early in my career. http://torchi.org/ http://torchi.org/ Now that I think about it, what was valuable then that isn't valuable now? I just rejoined!

by jnoller 16y ago

raganwald 16y ago

Interesting that you compare "a lot of programmers" to "good business people." It is no surprise that the programmers fare poorly in comparison. What do you have to say about Good Programmers? Or A Lot of Business People? May I attempt to find common ground between our points of view by suggesting that 90% of programmers have this attitude? And that by the same token, 90% of business people are busy demanding flash web site intros and banners that SCREAM without doing the A/B testing or other quantified analysis to know whether they are generating higher conversions? But your last statement is absolutely spot on: making what we do better is what matters most. Upmod gladly given.

jnoller 16y ago
Well, the larger HN community seemed to not take kindly to my comment, which seems odd in and of itself. Regardless, I concur with you - I can't speak to business people directly as it's not my particular domain, but yes - I've seen the same behavior that you have.

wallflower 16y ago

As a software developer who has at times thought that as long as the user interface is functional by the engineering definition that it is good enough, I've found it enlightening and interesting to go to local CHI (Computer Human Interaction) meetings where UX professionals present to one another. Programmers are a commodity but programmers who can understand and create user-friendly interfaces are less of one. http://www.sigchi.org/connect/local-sigs http://www.sigchi.org/connect/local-sigs

raganwald 16y ago
Take this a step further and join! I was an active member of ToRCHI for a few years and it was an amazing experience. Alas, it didn't make me a fully functional UX professional or even competent, but it did make me consciously incompetent, and that was valuable early in my career. http://torchi.org/ http://torchi.org/ Now that I think about it, what was valuable then that isn't valuable now? I just rejoined!