4 ms·

And it is a lifelong stigmatization as well. You will never be one of them, no matter how hard you try.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
iguy 8y ago
You can never ever become Chinese either. Nor Indian. Nor Nigerian. Nor Russian. Never mind Kuwaiti. The exception here is the west, both in terminology used for people originating elsewhere, and in actual beliefs. [You, personally, may possibly have one exception on this list, roughly if you come from the edge of one of these, but never more.]
- ikeyany 8y ago
  How so? The west is well-known for treating ethnic minorities as the "other". I don't think your opinion is very common among them.
  - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
    The state sanctioned Chinese language literally does not have a word for "ethnicnically foreign permanent resident/citizen of China"
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      That would sound a little more convincing if you hadn't taken six words to define the concept in English.
      - closeparen 8y ago
        “American” suffices over here. You need additional qualifiers to distinguish native-born from naturalized.
      - hueving 8y ago
        "American" is the term in the US because it's not tied to ethnicity. "Chinese" is tied to ethnicity.
        yorwba 8y ago
        English speakers may think of "Chinese" as an ethnicity, but it's different in Chinese. The default term is 中国人， which literally means "person from the middle country", which is quite obviously about nationality. If you want to talk about ethnicity, you'd use 汉人 for Han Chinese, 蒙古人 for Mongols and so on for any of the hundreds of Chinese ethnicities.
  - iguy 8y ago
    There's no utopia. That's all that's "well-known". I guess my criteria (for the above) are something like this: an awful lot of British people, and 100% of newspapers, will describe the sprinter Sir Mo Farah as being British, and only get to his place of birth on page two. This pretty much doesn't happen elsewhere. Although a reverse thing does happen, in which (for example) 2nd- and 3rd-generation british indians are not only welcome to almost all the privileges of Indian citizenship, but (if they become famous) are cheered in India. There is a lot of fawning over Priti Patel in the Indian newspapers, but obviously none at all in Ugandan newspapers.
- khallo 8y ago
  I don't think the issue is about "becoming" any of those nationalities you mentioned. You might not be considered Indian or Nigerian or Kuwaitian in those countries, but you sure as hell won't be ostracized or receive disapproving looks. That is speaking generally since every country has racist/xenophobic people. Blackface is quite common in Japan. Example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815 They have more work to do on their attitude towards foreigners than opening up more immigration channels.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    Blackface isn't necessarily racist. Is the blackfaced actor used to make fun of black people? Probably racist. But that would also be the case if it were a black actor doing the same (it might just be more difficult to hire one for that). Is it used to create tension between the obviously fake costume and the effort put into pretending that it is real? Probably not racist. I can imagine a show deriving great hilarity from casting everyone in a role they are not the least bit suited to and then trying to make it work anyway.
    - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
      > Blackface isn't necessarily racist. I remember the controversy of blackface being used in Tropic Thunder. I think you’re right that the intention behind it matters.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  Plenty of Russians aren't Russian. As long as you speak Russian and don't look obviously non-white you can pass for one pretty easily. As an extreme and over the top example: Stalin wasn't Russian.
  - iguy 8y ago
    Russia I know least about (in my list) so I could be wrong there. Maybe it's more like the West than I imagined. But Georgia is kind-of what I meant by "if you come from the edge of". Are there people from Japan, or Somalia, who many Russians (and the newspapers) would unthinkingly refer to as Russian? (Not a rhetorical question!)
    - pandaman 8y ago
      You are not wrong. There is confusion about the word "Russian". There are Russian nationality and Russian ethnicity. These are different words in Russian language but one in English and often confused (native Russian speakers add to that by misusing word "nationality", which, in Russian, means "ethnicity"). One can become a Russian national through immigration but one cannot become an ethnic Russian, obviously. Newspapers would not refer to anyone as ethnic Russian (русский) and use only nationality (россиянин) even for ethnic Russians. As for Stalin, he wanted to call himself (ethnic) Russian and it so happened nobody could object at the time.
krapp 8y ago
More than lifelong, in some cases, if you're Korean.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
You will never be one of them, no matter how hard you try. I would not even try, I'm not Japanese. I can like their culture, work there, respect their laws and all, but Japanese I am not and will never be.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

iguy 8y ago

You can never ever become Chinese either. Nor Indian. Nor Nigerian. Nor Russian. Never mind Kuwaiti. The exception here is the west, both in terminology used for people originating elsewhere, and in actual beliefs. [You, personally, may possibly have one exception on this list, roughly if you come from the edge of one of these, but never more.]

ikeyany 8y ago
How so? The west is well-known for treating ethnic minorities as the "other". I don't think your opinion is very common among them.
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  The state sanctioned Chinese language literally does not have a word for "ethnicnically foreign permanent resident/citizen of China"
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    That would sound a little more convincing if you hadn't taken six words to define the concept in English.
    - closeparen 8y ago
      “American” suffices over here. You need additional qualifiers to distinguish native-born from naturalized.
    - hueving 8y ago
      "American" is the term in the US because it's not tied to ethnicity. "Chinese" is tied to ethnicity.
      - yorwba 8y ago
        English speakers may think of "Chinese" as an ethnicity, but it's different in Chinese. The default term is 中国人， which literally means "person from the middle country", which is quite obviously about nationality. If you want to talk about ethnicity, you'd use 汉人 for Han Chinese, 蒙古人 for Mongols and so on for any of the hundreds of Chinese ethnicities.
- iguy 8y ago
  There's no utopia. That's all that's "well-known". I guess my criteria (for the above) are something like this: an awful lot of British people, and 100% of newspapers, will describe the sprinter Sir Mo Farah as being British, and only get to his place of birth on page two. This pretty much doesn't happen elsewhere. Although a reverse thing does happen, in which (for example) 2nd- and 3rd-generation british indians are not only welcome to almost all the privileges of Indian citizenship, but (if they become famous) are cheered in India. There is a lot of fawning over Priti Patel in the Indian newspapers, but obviously none at all in Ugandan newspapers.
khallo 8y ago
I don't think the issue is about "becoming" any of those nationalities you mentioned. You might not be considered Indian or Nigerian or Kuwaitian in those countries, but you sure as hell won't be ostracized or receive disapproving looks. That is speaking generally since every country has racist/xenophobic people. Blackface is quite common in Japan. Example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815 They have more work to do on their attitude towards foreigners than opening up more immigration channels.
- yorwba 8y ago
  Blackface isn't necessarily racist. Is the blackfaced actor used to make fun of black people? Probably racist. But that would also be the case if it were a black actor doing the same (it might just be more difficult to hire one for that). Is it used to create tension between the obviously fake costume and the effort put into pretending that it is real? Probably not racist. I can imagine a show deriving great hilarity from casting everyone in a role they are not the least bit suited to and then trying to make it work anyway.
  - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
    > Blackface isn't necessarily racist. I remember the controversy of blackface being used in Tropic Thunder. I think you’re right that the intention behind it matters.
zeth___ 8y ago
Plenty of Russians aren't Russian. As long as you speak Russian and don't look obviously non-white you can pass for one pretty easily. As an extreme and over the top example: Stalin wasn't Russian.
- iguy 8y ago
  Russia I know least about (in my list) so I could be wrong there. Maybe it's more like the West than I imagined. But Georgia is kind-of what I meant by "if you come from the edge of". Are there people from Japan, or Somalia, who many Russians (and the newspapers) would unthinkingly refer to as Russian? (Not a rhetorical question!)
  - pandaman 8y ago
    You are not wrong. There is confusion about the word "Russian". There are Russian nationality and Russian ethnicity. These are different words in Russian language but one in English and often confused (native Russian speakers add to that by misusing word "nationality", which, in Russian, means "ethnicity"). One can become a Russian national through immigration but one cannot become an ethnic Russian, obviously. Newspapers would not refer to anyone as ethnic Russian (русский) and use only nationality (россиянин) even for ethnic Russians. As for Stalin, he wanted to call himself (ethnic) Russian and it so happened nobody could object at the time.

krapp 8y ago

More than lifelong, in some cases, if you're Korean.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

You will never be one of them, no matter how hard you try. I would not even try, I'm not Japanese. I can like their culture, work there, respect their laws and all, but Japanese I am not and will never be.