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>"Secular folk disagree that religion is an optimal, or even necessary, way to do that good." You cannot speak for all of us. I believe that religiosity is li
by JackCh 8y ago
>"Secular folk disagree that religion is an optimal, or even necessary, way to do that good."
You cannot speak for all of us. I believe that religiosity is likely an optimal state for most humans, in which the masses function best. Some strains of it are more successful than others, and a few people on the edges don't need it to get through life, but most people don't have the time and/or intellectual capacity to find secular coping methods and are therefore best served by keeping their religion. My personal experience with people has led me to believe that nihilism and hedonism are common outcomes for most people when they lose their religion and I believe both are generally harmful to people and/or society in the long run. I know that's controversial, and I don't ask you or anybody else to agree with me.
I believe the above, and yet I am an atheist. Why am I an atheist? Because believing that religion tends to be a net good for people doesn't make me believe in any god, anymore than believing that children enjoy the fantasy of Santa Claus makes me believe in the guy myself. (Patronizing? Yes. I don't care.) My lack of religion was not and is not a political decision for me; and therefore you cannot speak for me in any matters concerning politics. I am not an anti-theist atheist. I am a pro-theist atheist.
- scotty79 8y ago> ... nihilism and hedonism are common outcomes for most people when they lose their religion ... If you are an addict and you stop you will suffer for some time but then you will get better. Not as good as if you never touched the stuff but still better.
- JackCh 8y agoIn my view, becoming an anti-thiest atheist is the "becoming a smack addict" stage. Some people get over it, and are better off for it, but they often cause a lot of damage to the people around them (not to mention themselves) before they finally get over it. And some people seem to never get over it.
- scotty79 8y agoCould you explain why do you feel that becoming atheist negative towards your former religion and/or religion in general is similar to becomming addicted to heroin? I fail to see the parallels.
- krapp 8y ago>My personal experience with people has led me to believe that nihilism and hedonism are common outcomes for most people when they lose their religion and I believe both are generally harmful to people and/or society in the long run. My personal experience is that the loss of religion can cause one to value life and humanity more deeply, because one realizes that life is truly finite and fragile, and that there is no framework of justice or ethics other than what we, humans, choose to create. Religion, meanwhile, seems to lead many people to disregard the value of the temporal for the sake of the perceived eternal. I know quite a few atheists and I wouldn't describe them as necessarily nihilistic or hedonistic - that seems to be more of a stereotype born from the common religious belief that morality itself derives explicitly from belief in the divine, and often the result of turning to atheism as a form of rebellion, which (at the risk of running into a "no true atheist" fallacy) is no more genuine than the person who turns to extreme ascetic religion for similar reasons. >My lack of religion was not and is not a political decision for me; and therefore you cannot speak for me in any matters concerning politics. Fair enough but... I don't think I mentioned politics?
- JackCh 8y ago>"Secular folk disagree that religion is an optimal" Whether or not religion is optimal is a political position.