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> Its a claim about the performance of the system which you have claimed we can not characterize with the currently available statistics. I claimed the feature

> Its a claim about the performance of the system which you have claimed we can not characterize with the currently available statistics. I claimed the feature they call "Autopilot" is unsafe because it has only limited capability (as per Tesla's documentation). But the naming of the feature and its marketing inspires false confidence in the drivers, leading to accidents. This is a very simple fact, and it should have been apparent to people a Tesla, and the fact that they went ahead and did this kind of marketing makes them "blatantly evil" in my books. Because, as you said, it is open and they are unashamed about it. Other safety features that are widely available in similar cars from other companies is irrelavant here. I am not even sure why you dragged it into this. >If we think long-term, their actions are part of what allows the long term to exist in the first place. What kind of circular logic is that? If they are not really interested (their real motivation) in the "long term", then their actions cease to be part of "what allows long term to exist".

JoshCole 8y ago
> I claimed the feature they call "Autopilot" is unsafe because it has only limited capability (as per Tesla's documentation). In citing their documentation, you acknowledge that there communication is enough to deduce the limits of their technology. In claiming that there is not enough data to make declarations about safety, you disavow the validity of your own proclamation of (a lack of) safety. In doing so, you've refuted many of the premises of your own argument. > But the naming of the feature and its marketing inspires false confidence in the drivers, leading to accidents. How is this different from any other name? Every word concept pair starts out without the word and the concept linked together. For example, the name given to our species is 'homo sapien' which means roughly 'wise human being'. But humans aren't always wise. So why isn't the person who coined the term 'homo sapien' blatantly evil for coining the term? > If they are not really interested in the "long term", then their actions cease to be part of "what allows [the] long term to exist". Maybe we're talking past each other but this is... an absurd idea. And wrong. So very wrong. If someone wakes up in the morning and they say they got up because they wanted to see the face of their loved one, but really they got up because they wanted to pee, they still got up out of bed. The existence of imperfectly stated motivations doesn't cause a cessation of causal history.
- buvanshak 8y ago
  > there communication is enough to deduce the limits of their technology.. Not deducing. By what they explicitly state in the manual. About the "need to keep hands on the wheel always". So again. I am not "deducing" it. >So why isn't the person who coined the term 'homo sapien' blatantly evil for coining the term? I don't know. Was the person who coined the the term trying to sell human beings as being wise? Are people suffering because of this word? What is your goddamn point? Tesla is evil because they use lies to SELL. use lies and project a false image to get INVESTMENT. Please keep this in mind when coming up with further examples. >The existence of imperfectly stated motivations doesn't cause a cessation of causal history. Ha. Now you are talking about "history" that does not exist yet. Are you really this misguided or just faking it?
  - JoshCole 8y ago
    You clearly don't know what deduce means. You've also clearly haven't understood anything I've said during this entire conversation. Or even much of what you've said, since you don't seem to realize you've refuted your own points. > Tesla is evil because they use lies to SELL. use lies and project a false image to get INVESTMENT. Please keep this in mind when coming up with further examples. You've utterly failed to establish that they are lying. > Are you really this misguided or just faking it? Tesla already has an established history. Therefore, it is not necessary to speculate about future history.
    - buvanshak 8y ago
      >You clearly don't know what deduce means. Please explain. >You've also clearly haven't understood anything I've said during this entire conversation. Oh I understood you just fine. I just find it stupid. >You've utterly failed to establish that they are lying. That is because you are overly generous with assumptions to justify their claims, which is typical of people who are apologetic of fraudulent entities such as Musk >Tesla already has an established history... But they haven't save the planet yet. Please give some thought about what you are writing before responding.

JoshCole 8y ago

> I claimed the feature they call "Autopilot" is unsafe because it has only limited capability (as per Tesla's documentation). In citing their documentation, you acknowledge that there communication is enough to deduce the limits of their technology. In claiming that there is not enough data to make declarations about safety, you disavow the validity of your own proclamation of (a lack of) safety. In doing so, you've refuted many of the premises of your own argument. > But the naming of the feature and its marketing inspires false confidence in the drivers, leading to accidents. How is this different from any other name? Every word concept pair starts out without the word and the concept linked together. For example, the name given to our species is 'homo sapien' which means roughly 'wise human being'. But humans aren't always wise. So why isn't the person who coined the term 'homo sapien' blatantly evil for coining the term? > If they are not really interested in the "long term", then their actions cease to be part of "what allows [the] long term to exist". Maybe we're talking past each other but this is... an absurd idea. And wrong. So very wrong. If someone wakes up in the morning and they say they got up because they wanted to see the face of their loved one, but really they got up because they wanted to pee, they still got up out of bed. The existence of imperfectly stated motivations doesn't cause a cessation of causal history.

buvanshak 8y ago
> there communication is enough to deduce the limits of their technology.. Not deducing. By what they explicitly state in the manual. About the "need to keep hands on the wheel always". So again. I am not "deducing" it. >So why isn't the person who coined the term 'homo sapien' blatantly evil for coining the term? I don't know. Was the person who coined the the term trying to sell human beings as being wise? Are people suffering because of this word? What is your goddamn point? Tesla is evil because they use lies to SELL. use lies and project a false image to get INVESTMENT. Please keep this in mind when coming up with further examples. >The existence of imperfectly stated motivations doesn't cause a cessation of causal history. Ha. Now you are talking about "history" that does not exist yet. Are you really this misguided or just faking it?
- JoshCole 8y ago
  You clearly don't know what deduce means. You've also clearly haven't understood anything I've said during this entire conversation. Or even much of what you've said, since you don't seem to realize you've refuted your own points. > Tesla is evil because they use lies to SELL. use lies and project a false image to get INVESTMENT. Please keep this in mind when coming up with further examples. You've utterly failed to establish that they are lying. > Are you really this misguided or just faking it? Tesla already has an established history. Therefore, it is not necessary to speculate about future history.
  - buvanshak 8y ago
    >You clearly don't know what deduce means. Please explain. >You've also clearly haven't understood anything I've said during this entire conversation. Oh I understood you just fine. I just find it stupid. >You've utterly failed to establish that they are lying. That is because you are overly generous with assumptions to justify their claims, which is typical of people who are apologetic of fraudulent entities such as Musk >Tesla already has an established history... But they haven't save the planet yet. Please give some thought about what you are writing before responding.