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I feel like this should be left here: Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. If your secret pain feels like a weight you can no longer carr

I feel like this should be left here: Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. If your secret pain feels like a weight you can no longer carry, please talk to someone. Anyone. Lay down your burdens, and give your shoulders a rest. If you're in the US, there's the National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255 LGBT folks in the US might also consider The Trevor Project Lifeline: 1-866-488-7386 I don't know about international numbers or other region- or culture-specific services; perhaps others can reply with the ones they're aware of.

astockwell 8y ago
UK: 116 123
oceanghost 8y ago
> Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. Star Trek V! Sybok: Let us explore it together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me, and gain strength from the sharing.
- phkahler 8y ago
  Sometimes the pain is a secret even from the person harboring it. IMO this is the basis for some PDs.
  - oceanghost 8y ago
    I never really believed in Freudian stuff until my first wife. Her subconscious was a monster.
    - phkahler 8y ago
      That's part of the stigma. Some of the concepts and models sound goofy (crazy) to those who haven't experienced it. Freud though... I'm not impressed with him in the slightest.
      - oceanghost 8y ago
        No stigma here. Just don't know how to get a person who thinks everyone is crazy but her, help.
RobertDeNiro 8y ago
Suicide hotlines are pretty ineffective as far as suicide prevention goes.
- idbehold 8y ago
  Do you know of something more effective for the same cost?
  - e1ven 8y ago
    Sadly, both statements are true - Call Centers are not particularly effective. It's also true that there aren't widely available good options. It's a difficult situation, and the tools to address it are inadequate.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - RobertDeNiro 8y ago
    Posting an anonymous comment on Reddit? I don't know, at this point anything is as effective as that. I'm just tired of seeing these hotline numbers shared across all forms of media as if they were the solution to everything. Real therapy, as far as I know, is the only effective solution. There's no low cost solution other than maybe trying to form deeper relationships with the people around you.
    - phil248 8y ago
      It sounds like you do not know much about the topic, but still felt compelled to contradict the most common suicide prevention advice in a public forum while offering no evidence. Maybe not a great thing to do on a high-traffic website on the day of a high-profile suicide.
      - RobertDeNiro 8y ago
        > not a great thing to do on a high-traffic website on the day of a high-profile suicide. It's the only time people seem willing to discuss suicide. A week from now everyone will have forgotten that suicide is a real epidemic. I'd rather see people discuss real solutions instead be of endlessly repeating the same pointless things.
Someone1234 8y ago
If you're in the US, you may also wish to think twice before calling the cops on a loved one, particularly if they're only a danger to themselves (and not you or others). Police in the US rarely receive training[0] in dealing with suicidal individuals, and are instead trained to escalate the situation and or use violence for a resolution[1]. There are numerous examples of the police turning up on a suicide call and killing the individual, even when unarmed[2][3]. They simply aren't qualified to deal with suicidal individuals and should only be used when other's safety is at stake. [0] http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/375040-police-need-more-mental-health-training http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/375040-police-need-mor... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-... [2] https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-was-simply-backing-his-moms-minivan-out-of-garage-lawsuit-claims https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-... [3] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/02/santa-clara-da-clears-officer-who-fatally-shot-mentally-ill-suicidal-man/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/02/santa-clara-da-clears...
- mywittyname 8y ago
  I suspect this is a driver of the increased suicide rate. People are afraid to tell others because they don't want to deal with the police/authorities, so they don't get the help they need. My sister attempted suicide as a teenager and the police that responded spent hours ransacking our home and further tormenting my family for no good reason. Then to think of her being locked up in the hospital (I wasn't able to see her for at least a week). If I were having such thoughts, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone for this precise reason.
  - astine 8y ago
    As a person who lives in the US, this isn't something that I would generally think of if I were considering whether to tell someone that I was planning suicide. Reading your account however, maybe it's something I should be worried about.
    - 8y ago
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I, for one, can count the number of times that talking to someone has helped my depression on 0 hands. That includes professionals. I don't know how other people who've suffered depression most of their lives feel, but I can't stand this advice. It reeks of being the lowest effort possible by someone who has no understanding whatsoever of what they're talking about and prefers to just parrot something that sounds good to them. I'd honestly rather have people tell me they think I'm a weak pussy who should just suck it up, because at least their being open and honest about their lack of give-a-damn.
- Magmatic 8y ago
  I think the best talk I had from a therapist in the early aughts went, "In general, the only things we know that help with depression are: exercise, some sunlight, a little social interaction, and self-care; bathing, brushing your teeth, etc. Medicine can help some but results are inconsistent, talk therapy is rarely helpful." He spent two years just keeping me accountable on the little day to day things and while it didn't immediately cure my depression my quality of increased dramatically. The idea that something like keeping my room tidy would help with my depression sounded absolutely god damn insane at the time, "I want existence to end and you're telling me to make my bed?" ..but somehow those hundred small things mattered, life's pretty good these days. God damn brains are dumb.
  - Jtsummers 8y ago
    I survived my deepest depression by showering and shaving every day. Then forcing myself to get dressed and go be with other people, even sitting in a coffee shop and feeling miserable, hiding it behind a smile and a book. Being home, alone, unshaven, unclean, in an unkept house made me feel worse because of all the things I saw that needed to be done, and the isolation allowing me to think about that and only that. A bit of tidying made my space feel better (less cramped) and a bit of tidying each day reduced the sense of burden compared to seeing the whole place as one big mess. Same for the self-care and other aspects. Every undone thing is an extra stressor because it's an extra thing that you know needs to be done, but in a depressed state you do not feel able to do or that there is sufficient time to do (it seems overwhelming, even when in reality it's a small chore). Being somewhat social (even as an introvert), being physically active and getting my sunlight, and maintaining a decently tidy home (I still suck at cleaning the shower often enough, and I never make my bed), have made an immense difference. There's also the benefit of routine and ritual. That's part of what the showering and shaving did. I'm lying in bed and I haven't shaved yet, I need to shave, let's get up and shave. I have to do this, once it's done it's done and I can move on. Now I'm out of bed and I can maybe do something else or not, but the ritual helped force me out of bed and gave me even the chance to have a healthy day.
starpilot 8y ago
This is the American attitude toward people and things we find distasteful. We seek to wash our hands of them, not fix or rehabilitate. We throw criminals in jail and forget about them, we hand off the mentally "ill" to clinicians and forget about them. The last thing we would do is help them ourselves, or see what in our society might be so damaging. Every person for themselves, autonomy and independence is the American way. Fundamentally we seek to reaffirm Puritanical attitudes of being born good or bad, and by emphasizing how "different" we are, how "specialists" must handle "those people" and not just friends who can listen, we create distance and make ourselves feel better. The opposite would be to humanize them, but that makes us extremely uncomfortable.
nkzednan 8y ago
> Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. There's another good quote I've heard: “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maclaren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maclaren) I have heard it with " you know nothing about" at the end.

astockwell 8y ago

UK: 116 123

oceanghost 8y ago

> Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. Star Trek V! Sybok: Let us explore it together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me, and gain strength from the sharing.

phkahler 8y ago
Sometimes the pain is a secret even from the person harboring it. IMO this is the basis for some PDs.
- oceanghost 8y ago
  I never really believed in Freudian stuff until my first wife. Her subconscious was a monster.
  - phkahler 8y ago
    That's part of the stigma. Some of the concepts and models sound goofy (crazy) to those who haven't experienced it. Freud though... I'm not impressed with him in the slightest.
    - oceanghost 8y ago
      No stigma here. Just don't know how to get a person who thinks everyone is crazy but her, help.

RobertDeNiro 8y ago

Suicide hotlines are pretty ineffective as far as suicide prevention goes.

idbehold 8y ago
Do you know of something more effective for the same cost?
- e1ven 8y ago
  Sadly, both statements are true - Call Centers are not particularly effective. It's also true that there aren't widely available good options. It's a difficult situation, and the tools to address it are inadequate.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- RobertDeNiro 8y ago
  Posting an anonymous comment on Reddit? I don't know, at this point anything is as effective as that. I'm just tired of seeing these hotline numbers shared across all forms of media as if they were the solution to everything. Real therapy, as far as I know, is the only effective solution. There's no low cost solution other than maybe trying to form deeper relationships with the people around you.
  - phil248 8y ago
    It sounds like you do not know much about the topic, but still felt compelled to contradict the most common suicide prevention advice in a public forum while offering no evidence. Maybe not a great thing to do on a high-traffic website on the day of a high-profile suicide.
    - RobertDeNiro 8y ago
      > not a great thing to do on a high-traffic website on the day of a high-profile suicide. It's the only time people seem willing to discuss suicide. A week from now everyone will have forgotten that suicide is a real epidemic. I'd rather see people discuss real solutions instead be of endlessly repeating the same pointless things.

Someone1234 8y ago

If you're in the US, you may also wish to think twice before calling the cops on a loved one, particularly if they're only a danger to themselves (and not you or others). Police in the US rarely receive training[0] in dealing with suicidal individuals, and are instead trained to escalate the situation and or use violence for a resolution[1]. There are numerous examples of the police turning up on a suicide call and killing the individual, even when unarmed[2][3]. They simply aren't qualified to deal with suicidal individuals and should only be used when other's safety is at stake. [0] http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/375040-police-need-more-mental-health-training http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/375040-police-need-mor... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-... [2] https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-was-simply-backing-his-moms-minivan-out-of-garage-lawsuit-claims https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-... [3] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/02/santa-clara-da-clears-officer-who-fatally-shot-mentally-ill-suicidal-man/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/02/santa-clara-da-clears...

mywittyname 8y ago
I suspect this is a driver of the increased suicide rate. People are afraid to tell others because they don't want to deal with the police/authorities, so they don't get the help they need. My sister attempted suicide as a teenager and the police that responded spent hours ransacking our home and further tormenting my family for no good reason. Then to think of her being locked up in the hospital (I wasn't able to see her for at least a week). If I were having such thoughts, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone for this precise reason.
- astine 8y ago
  As a person who lives in the US, this isn't something that I would generally think of if I were considering whether to tell someone that I was planning suicide. Reading your account however, maybe it's something I should be worried about.
  - 8y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I, for one, can count the number of times that talking to someone has helped my depression on 0 hands. That includes professionals. I don't know how other people who've suffered depression most of their lives feel, but I can't stand this advice. It reeks of being the lowest effort possible by someone who has no understanding whatsoever of what they're talking about and prefers to just parrot something that sounds good to them. I'd honestly rather have people tell me they think I'm a weak pussy who should just suck it up, because at least their being open and honest about their lack of give-a-damn.

Magmatic 8y ago
I think the best talk I had from a therapist in the early aughts went, "In general, the only things we know that help with depression are: exercise, some sunlight, a little social interaction, and self-care; bathing, brushing your teeth, etc. Medicine can help some but results are inconsistent, talk therapy is rarely helpful." He spent two years just keeping me accountable on the little day to day things and while it didn't immediately cure my depression my quality of increased dramatically. The idea that something like keeping my room tidy would help with my depression sounded absolutely god damn insane at the time, "I want existence to end and you're telling me to make my bed?" ..but somehow those hundred small things mattered, life's pretty good these days. God damn brains are dumb.
- Jtsummers 8y ago
  I survived my deepest depression by showering and shaving every day. Then forcing myself to get dressed and go be with other people, even sitting in a coffee shop and feeling miserable, hiding it behind a smile and a book. Being home, alone, unshaven, unclean, in an unkept house made me feel worse because of all the things I saw that needed to be done, and the isolation allowing me to think about that and only that. A bit of tidying made my space feel better (less cramped) and a bit of tidying each day reduced the sense of burden compared to seeing the whole place as one big mess. Same for the self-care and other aspects. Every undone thing is an extra stressor because it's an extra thing that you know needs to be done, but in a depressed state you do not feel able to do or that there is sufficient time to do (it seems overwhelming, even when in reality it's a small chore). Being somewhat social (even as an introvert), being physically active and getting my sunlight, and maintaining a decently tidy home (I still suck at cleaning the shower often enough, and I never make my bed), have made an immense difference. There's also the benefit of routine and ritual. That's part of what the showering and shaving did. I'm lying in bed and I haven't shaved yet, I need to shave, let's get up and shave. I have to do this, once it's done it's done and I can move on. Now I'm out of bed and I can maybe do something else or not, but the ritual helped force me out of bed and gave me even the chance to have a healthy day.

starpilot 8y ago

This is the American attitude toward people and things we find distasteful. We seek to wash our hands of them, not fix or rehabilitate. We throw criminals in jail and forget about them, we hand off the mentally "ill" to clinicians and forget about them. The last thing we would do is help them ourselves, or see what in our society might be so damaging. Every person for themselves, autonomy and independence is the American way. Fundamentally we seek to reaffirm Puritanical attitudes of being born good or bad, and by emphasizing how "different" we are, how "specialists" must handle "those people" and not just friends who can listen, we create distance and make ourselves feel better. The opposite would be to humanize them, but that makes us extremely uncomfortable.

nkzednan 8y ago

> Everybody you meet has a secret smile, and a secret pain. There's another good quote I've heard: “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maclaren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maclaren) I have heard it with " you know nothing about" at the end.