3 ms·

You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Humans don

You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Humans don't work like that, though, because we have brains which adapt our behavior to our circumstances. You say (emphasis mine): > Which isn't to say there are no more mysteries in nutrition science, but the basics are well understood and simple to adhere to. Most people just don't want to. That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation.

gamblor956 8y ago
Motivation isn't genetic, which was the key thrust of your earlier argument.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Of course it is. Here's a link for you: https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic First Law of Behavior Genetics: All human behavioral traits are heritable. https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Behaviour-Genetics https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Beha...
  - naasking 8y ago
    Third Law: * A substantial portion of the variation in complex human behavioral traits is not accounted for by the effects of genes or families. In other words, neither genes nor your family environment while growing up can account for a substantial portion of your adult behaviour.
naasking 8y ago
> You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. > That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation. Sure, and why not make the initial conditions of the Big Bang part of the equation while you're at it? Then nothing is your fault or within your control, and you can just do whatever you want and blame god for the way things are. Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Your citations down below demonstrate that roughly 50% of variation in personality are heritable. Relinquishing the other 50% of your personal responsibility is a sure way to ensure that nothing changes.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  > Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. Humans have brains. One of the things that human brains do when somebody reduces their caloric intake is that they down-regulate that person's motivation to do stuff. So yeah, you can't violate the laws of thermodynamics, but the energy equation is inputs minus outputs. If you reduce inputs but also reduce outputs, then you haven't changed the energy balance. > Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Look, I agree. I initially responded to somebody talking about abs. Then I make a comment about diets being extremely ineffective long-term interventions. You disagree, but the literature on this topic is extensive. In fact, the fact that people cannot follow diets is just about the only reliable finding that nutrition research has produced. You may look at a .5 heritability for something and think that leaves a whole lot of room for personal responsibility, so let me add some context. Height has a heritability of about .8. No sane person, anywhere, believes that a person has any control over their height. It is entirely your genetics and, absent severe malnutrition, random shit that happens in your life (possibly starting inside the womb). A .5 heritability for conscientiousness means that, to start, 50% of your work ethic and sense of personal responsibility (rough common language approximations of the conscientiousness trait) are completely and utterly out of your control. Then, out of the other 50%, free will is one of many possible other things which exert influence. Now, you may think, oh, well all 50% of that is up to the individual. But I assure you that it almost certainly is not. I could probably come up with dozens of things that would have an influence, but here are just a few that come to mind first: your income level, whether or not you have a chronic illness, how stressful your job is, how stressful your marriage is, whether or not you have family members who are ill, whether or not you have dependent children. All of those things go into non-shared environment and many of them are not in your control. But you better believe they influence your ability to take personal responsibility.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    > One of the things that human brains do when somebody reduces their caloric intake is that they down-regulate that person's motivation to do stuff. You are saying that just because I'm eating fewer calories, I'm going to have less motivation? That makes no sense. Sure, if I'm hungry (similar to if I am tired, upset, etc) I will have less motivation, but as long as my hunger is satiated, I don't see how that makes sense. The real problem with us (myself included) these days is that we eat WAY more than we need. Cutting back to a more reasonable level should not be causing motivational problems.
loco5niner 8y ago
> Motivation is part of the equation So really, it comes down to laziness.

gamblor956 8y ago

Motivation isn't genetic, which was the key thrust of your earlier argument.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Of course it is. Here's a link for you: https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-work-ethic-genetic First Law of Behavior Genetics: All human behavioral traits are heritable. https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Behaviour-Genetics https://www.scribd.com/document/203690269/Three-laws-of-Beha...
- naasking 8y ago
  Third Law: * A substantial portion of the variation in complex human behavioral traits is not accounted for by the effects of genes or families. In other words, neither genes nor your family environment while growing up can account for a substantial portion of your adult behaviour.

naasking 8y ago

> You're treating humans like simple physics formula: change a variable on one side of the equation and the other side of the equation changes in kind. Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. > That's the catch, isn't it? You can't just write that off. Motivation is part of the equation. Sure, and why not make the initial conditions of the Big Bang part of the equation while you're at it? Then nothing is your fault or within your control, and you can just do whatever you want and blame god for the way things are. Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Your citations down below demonstrate that roughly 50% of variation in personality are heritable. Relinquishing the other 50% of your personal responsibility is a sure way to ensure that nothing changes.

toasterlovin 8y ago
> Energy balance is a simple physics equation. Yes there are adaptations as I noted in my previous post, but they don't change this basic fact, merely how conveniently it's achieved. Humans have brains. One of the things that human brains do when somebody reduces their caloric intake is that they down-regulate that person's motivation to do stuff. So yeah, you can't violate the laws of thermodynamics, but the energy equation is inputs minus outputs. If you reduce inputs but also reduce outputs, then you haven't changed the energy balance. > Dismissing personal responsibility in your life is not a valid option. Look, I agree. I initially responded to somebody talking about abs. Then I make a comment about diets being extremely ineffective long-term interventions. You disagree, but the literature on this topic is extensive. In fact, the fact that people cannot follow diets is just about the only reliable finding that nutrition research has produced. You may look at a .5 heritability for something and think that leaves a whole lot of room for personal responsibility, so let me add some context. Height has a heritability of about .8. No sane person, anywhere, believes that a person has any control over their height. It is entirely your genetics and, absent severe malnutrition, random shit that happens in your life (possibly starting inside the womb). A .5 heritability for conscientiousness means that, to start, 50% of your work ethic and sense of personal responsibility (rough common language approximations of the conscientiousness trait) are completely and utterly out of your control. Then, out of the other 50%, free will is one of many possible other things which exert influence. Now, you may think, oh, well all 50% of that is up to the individual. But I assure you that it almost certainly is not. I could probably come up with dozens of things that would have an influence, but here are just a few that come to mind first: your income level, whether or not you have a chronic illness, how stressful your job is, how stressful your marriage is, whether or not you have family members who are ill, whether or not you have dependent children. All of those things go into non-shared environment and many of them are not in your control. But you better believe they influence your ability to take personal responsibility.
- loco5niner 8y ago
  > One of the things that human brains do when somebody reduces their caloric intake is that they down-regulate that person's motivation to do stuff. You are saying that just because I'm eating fewer calories, I'm going to have less motivation? That makes no sense. Sure, if I'm hungry (similar to if I am tired, upset, etc) I will have less motivation, but as long as my hunger is satiated, I don't see how that makes sense. The real problem with us (myself included) these days is that we eat WAY more than we need. Cutting back to a more reasonable level should not be causing motivational problems.

loco5niner 8y ago

> Motivation is part of the equation So really, it comes down to laziness.