4 ms·

It reminds me in the early days of "smart phones" people would say where is the Linux phone OS we keep hearing about. They just didn't understand that Android w

It reminds me in the early days of "smart phones" people would say where is the Linux phone OS we keep hearing about. They just didn't understand that Android was Linux based. The Voice Assistance is a vocal chatbot. People were thinking it was going to be text. No one missed anything except the actual product everyone was talking about. I feel like this happens all the time. We get caught into one strict interpenetration and miss the HUGE thing staring at our face, or ears in this instance.

dozzie 8y ago
> It reminds me in the early days of "smart phones" people would say where is the Linux phone OS we keep hearing about. They just didn't understand that Android was Linux based. It's actually the people who believe that Android is Linux-based that are mistaken. If you write for Android, you write for Android and nothing more. You can't just run the application on a regular Linux (i.e. the one with libc and X11), and if Google ever rips Linux kernel out of it and replaces with, say, DOS, most of the applications won't even need to be recompiled, because they were using Android's API/ABI.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  That changes nothing about Android being Linux based, though. The word "based" has a definition, and you're trying to change it.
  - dozzie 8y ago
    Then what does it mean "to be based on"? What's its definition, and a one that's well-established and commonly agreed upon, since you're trying to invoke it?
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      "a fundamental principle or groundwork; foundation; basis"[1] [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/based http://www.dictionary.com/browse/based
      - dozzie 8y ago
        And in what way is the Linux kernel the "fundamental principle" or "foundation" of Android? How is it so important that you can rip it out and replace with something totally different without much change to the applications running on top?
        TomMarius 8y ago
        You can replace NT with Linux (or Linux with NT) as well. Userspace has nothing to do with this, kernel has its API and the userspace is built on top of it
        dozzie 8y ago
        > You can replace NT with Linux (or Linux with NT) as well. No, not quite, not without enormous effort. Look at Cygwin or WSL or Wine: tons of work poured into and still not there yet. On the other hand, typical Android application only ever touches Android's API and doesn't even leave its JVM. Replacing whole kernel (with obvious single point of work in Java interpreter) would be practically invisible.
- LocalH 8y ago
  I think you’re confused about Linux being anything more than a kernel
  - baldfat 8y ago
    How so? Android runs on the Linux Kernel.
daveguy 8y ago
Ehhhh... I'd say they're less effective than a simple switch so far. Like the chatbots that are good in constrained environments because they're glorified menu systems. When we can reasonably "chat" with our voice assistants then we have actually gotten there. More specifically, when I can tell my voice chatbot I just want to say "alexa" in the morning when the alarm goes off to snooze. Or when they are adaptable and pattern observant enough that I can say "alexa the usual" in the morning and get the higher volume as I walk through the house and news and my favorite podcast as I ask for every morning. When they come close to accomplishing those things, then we will have vocal chatbots. When they can "remember" just as much as the original Eliza chatbot then we will be there. Currently they are more like vocal light switches than vocal chatbots.

dozzie 8y ago

> It reminds me in the early days of "smart phones" people would say where is the Linux phone OS we keep hearing about. They just didn't understand that Android was Linux based. It's actually the people who believe that Android is Linux-based that are mistaken. If you write for Android, you write for Android and nothing more. You can't just run the application on a regular Linux (i.e. the one with libc and X11), and if Google ever rips Linux kernel out of it and replaces with, say, DOS, most of the applications won't even need to be recompiled, because they were using Android's API/ABI.

TomMarius 8y ago
That changes nothing about Android being Linux based, though. The word "based" has a definition, and you're trying to change it.
- dozzie 8y ago
  Then what does it mean "to be based on"? What's its definition, and a one that's well-established and commonly agreed upon, since you're trying to invoke it?
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    "a fundamental principle or groundwork; foundation; basis"[1] [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/based http://www.dictionary.com/browse/based
    - dozzie 8y ago
      And in what way is the Linux kernel the "fundamental principle" or "foundation" of Android? How is it so important that you can rip it out and replace with something totally different without much change to the applications running on top?
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        You can replace NT with Linux (or Linux with NT) as well. Userspace has nothing to do with this, kernel has its API and the userspace is built on top of it
        dozzie 8y ago
        > You can replace NT with Linux (or Linux with NT) as well. No, not quite, not without enormous effort. Look at Cygwin or WSL or Wine: tons of work poured into and still not there yet. On the other hand, typical Android application only ever touches Android's API and doesn't even leave its JVM. Replacing whole kernel (with obvious single point of work in Java interpreter) would be practically invisible.
LocalH 8y ago
I think you’re confused about Linux being anything more than a kernel
- baldfat 8y ago
  How so? Android runs on the Linux Kernel.

daveguy 8y ago

Ehhhh... I'd say they're less effective than a simple switch so far. Like the chatbots that are good in constrained environments because they're glorified menu systems. When we can reasonably "chat" with our voice assistants then we have actually gotten there. More specifically, when I can tell my voice chatbot I just want to say "alexa" in the morning when the alarm goes off to snooze. Or when they are adaptable and pattern observant enough that I can say "alexa the usual" in the morning and get the higher volume as I walk through the house and news and my favorite podcast as I ask for every morning. When they come close to accomplishing those things, then we will have vocal chatbots. When they can "remember" just as much as the original Eliza chatbot then we will be there. Currently they are more like vocal light switches than vocal chatbots.