5 ms·

I don't really see the racism slant the article is trying to paint all over this stupidity.

by larrik 8y ago

gowld 8y ago
That's because you don't view the police as a dangerous occupying force in your community.
- thucydidesofusa 8y ago
  I view the police as dangerous but recognize their danger as a necessary cost for effectiveness. I'm afraid of the police, but I'm more afraid of no police.
  - foobarbazetc 8y ago
    This is a very US centric view of policing.
    - kazinator 8y ago
      That's hardly the case; police consists of semi-educated goons all over the world. Perhaps not everywhere, but it's not purely concentrated in the US.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      This is a very regional US centric view of policing.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    I'm equally afraid of no police, and calling the police. Figure that out.
  - r00fus 8y ago
    There are stories every month of police going out of their way to shoot people or with trigger-fingers turning a normal situation into a police homocide - mostly impacting people of color.
    - thucydidesofusa 8y ago
      Race does seem to have some information value to explaining police shootings, but it's not as information efficient as class. I defend the right of officers to employ force, but I don't defend every instance of it.
- ng12 8y ago
  I don't think anyone in San Francisco does, either.
- kazinator 8y ago
  If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Let's assume for a moment that it's a good idea for the scooters to threaten to call someone. (It isn't, but let's bear with this). Who should the the scooters threaten to call? "I will call Reverend James from the parish down the street?" "I will call your mother?" "I will call the fire department?"
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    > If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Homeowners/renters insurance?
    - kazinator 8y ago
      You'd first call insurance the moment you caught someone in the act? So, let's get this straight: it would be an improvement for the scooters to blast: "Don't steal me, or else I will call the insurance company to be replaced".
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        Possibly! First, in this particular case, I'd doubt my ability to determine if I'm actually seeing a theft in progress. I've used Starbucks mobile ordering and always feel like someone's gonna think I'm stealing stuff - it's a weird experience. Second, calling the cops for a property crime like theft/vandalism is something I'm not 100% comfortable with. I've got insurance on my stuff, I think our prison system sucks and is frequently counter-productive, and I don't like the idea that calling the police can cause people to die for non-capital crimes (or complete innocence, like the swatting case a while back).
        ng12 8y ago
        Surely you realize you adopt a more anarcho-libertarian stance than most people? Also how do you weigh the risk that a criminal will do physical harm to you (or their next victim) versus the risk that the police do physical harm to them?
frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
Well let's take an easy example. If the scooter said "Unlock me or I'll call the KKK" we can all agree that's racist right? But even in this example it's not like the scooter is itself doing anything racist, right? It's just calling for help from a group of people who happen to be racist, it just so happens that calling racists to help you is probably pretty racist. So what does that give us? If you don't think the cops are racist then calling the cops isn't racist, if you think the cops are racist then calling the cops can be racist. But aside from that I think the racism angle is a bit distracting. The real problem seems to me that scooter companies are allowed to push all these ugly externalities on us without paying for them. I see that there is a role for police in private property protection, but is there some point at which we ask a company to pay for a certain amount of their own protection? It seems to me that these scooter services introduce the possibility of crime to a level we don't normally see. Maybe they should pay for that.
SolarNet 8y ago
Because there isn't a systemic problem with people who look like you getting shot for no reason when they talk to the police.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- throw55 8y ago
  Nor isn't for anyone else. There is a systemic problem with certain ethnicities propensity for crime - hence violent interactions with the police that happen as a result. Most cases the media publicizes turn out to be flat lies, such as the 'hands up, don't shoot'.

I don't really see the racism slant the article is trying to paint all over this stupidity.

by larrik 8y ago

I don't really see the racism slant the article is trying to paint all over this stupidity.

gowld 8y ago

That's because you don't view the police as a dangerous occupying force in your community.

thucydidesofusa 8y ago
I view the police as dangerous but recognize their danger as a necessary cost for effectiveness. I'm afraid of the police, but I'm more afraid of no police.
- foobarbazetc 8y ago
  This is a very US centric view of policing.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    That's hardly the case; police consists of semi-educated goons all over the world. Perhaps not everywhere, but it's not purely concentrated in the US.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    This is a very regional US centric view of policing.
- aphextron 8y ago
  I'm equally afraid of no police, and calling the police. Figure that out.
- r00fus 8y ago
  There are stories every month of police going out of their way to shoot people or with trigger-fingers turning a normal situation into a police homocide - mostly impacting people of color.
  - thucydidesofusa 8y ago
    Race does seem to have some information value to explaining police shootings, but it's not as information efficient as class. I defend the right of officers to employ force, but I don't defend every instance of it.
ng12 8y ago
I don't think anyone in San Francisco does, either.
kazinator 8y ago
If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Let's assume for a moment that it's a good idea for the scooters to threaten to call someone. (It isn't, but let's bear with this). Who should the the scooters threaten to call? "I will call Reverend James from the parish down the street?" "I will call your mother?" "I will call the fire department?"
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  > If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Homeowners/renters insurance?
  - kazinator 8y ago
    You'd first call insurance the moment you caught someone in the act? So, let's get this straight: it would be an improvement for the scooters to blast: "Don't steal me, or else I will call the insurance company to be replaced".
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Possibly! First, in this particular case, I'd doubt my ability to determine if I'm actually seeing a theft in progress. I've used Starbucks mobile ordering and always feel like someone's gonna think I'm stealing stuff - it's a weird experience. Second, calling the cops for a property crime like theft/vandalism is something I'm not 100% comfortable with. I've got insurance on my stuff, I think our prison system sucks and is frequently counter-productive, and I don't like the idea that calling the police can cause people to die for non-capital crimes (or complete innocence, like the swatting case a while back).
      - ng12 8y ago
        Surely you realize you adopt a more anarcho-libertarian stance than most people? Also how do you weigh the risk that a criminal will do physical harm to you (or their next victim) versus the risk that the police do physical harm to them?

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago

Well let's take an easy example. If the scooter said "Unlock me or I'll call the KKK" we can all agree that's racist right? But even in this example it's not like the scooter is itself doing anything racist, right? It's just calling for help from a group of people who happen to be racist, it just so happens that calling racists to help you is probably pretty racist. So what does that give us? If you don't think the cops are racist then calling the cops isn't racist, if you think the cops are racist then calling the cops can be racist. But aside from that I think the racism angle is a bit distracting. The real problem seems to me that scooter companies are allowed to push all these ugly externalities on us without paying for them. I see that there is a role for police in private property protection, but is there some point at which we ask a company to pay for a certain amount of their own protection? It seems to me that these scooter services introduce the possibility of crime to a level we don't normally see. Maybe they should pay for that.

SolarNet 8y ago

Because there isn't a systemic problem with people who look like you getting shot for no reason when they talk to the police.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
throw55 8y ago
Nor isn't for anyone else. There is a systemic problem with certain ethnicities propensity for crime - hence violent interactions with the police that happen as a result. Most cases the media publicizes turn out to be flat lies, such as the 'hands up, don't shoot'.